ADvertise hereLee PrecisionMidSouth Shooters SupplyRepackbox
Inline FabricationTitan ReloadingWidenersRotoMetals2

Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Slugs and saboted slugs in shotguns

  1. #1
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    996

    Slugs and saboted slugs in shotguns

    What sort of accuracy or consistency should be expected when shooting 12 gauge 2.75-inch shot shells with slugs from a 2.75-inch chamber and cylinder bore?
    Itís so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then donít say it. Sam Levinson

  2. #2
    Boolit Master bikerbeans's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,927
    No way to know short of actually shooting a particular gun/ammo combo. Lots of info on slugs and slug guns in the casting for shotgun subforum.

    Good luck,

    BB

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

    Hogtamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    East central GA, Appling near Augusta
    Posts
    2,676
    From very good to awful! Big round balls that fill up the bore or saboted that do the same are reasonably accurate to 50 yds from smoothbore.
    "My main ambition in life is to be on the devil's most wanted list."
    Leonard Ravenhill

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master

    gwpercle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana
    Posts
    5,400
    Depends on the ammo .
    I bought several different boxes of different slugs and tested them in my 18" smooth bore w/ no choke cylinder bore and discovered standard Remington Slugger (foster type) did darn well at 50 yards...the only way to know is shoot as many different loads as you can , at bullseye targets and keep a record .
    Best to spread testing out over several range trips ... shooting 12 ga. slugs off a bench gets to the shoulder rather quickly .

    At 50 yards , if I didn't jerk the trigger , I could get 2 1/2" - 3 " groups at 50 yards and 5 1/2" at near 100 yards .
    I don't plan on shooting past 50 to 75 yards max and that's if I can get a solid rest to shoot from .
    Some kind of sight helps also ... I would like to see what a red dot would do to those groups .
    Gary
    Last edited by gwpercle; 03-13-2020 at 11:58 AM.
    Certified Cajun
    Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
    CastingFool's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Climax, Michigan
    Posts
    1,936
    When I was using a smoothbore 12 ga with foster slugs, I would get 2-3/4" groups at 50 yds all day long, as long as I did my part. Only diff was that my barrel wss choked improved cylinder. I also have an 18" cylinder bore 12 ga, but I haven't shot any slugs out of it yet

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    996

    Temporary sight system?

    I'm convinced that I must shoot a sample of several slugs and saboted slugs to confirm accuracy-consistency either way. Right now the shotgun has no rear sighting system of any sort. Front sight is a usual small bead.

    How can I temporarily affix a sight system of sufficient precision to the shotgun to have confidence in slug/sabot shooting tests? If the shotgun achieves consistent pattern of 4 inches at 75 yards, that's the ammunition to use. I will stop sampling at that point ó that is, I will not keep going with testing to try to find a more consistently accurate ammunition. I'll then have a permanent sight system installed on the shotgun. If testing shows insufficient accuracy, well, I've had some fun shooting. And I didn't invest in a useless precision sight system.
    Itís so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then donít say it. Sam Levinson

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master



    missionary5155's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Back in Sunny, Warm Arequipa till 2020
    Posts
    6,011
    Greetings
    I "painted" a white line with nail polish for a reference point on top of the receiver (Mossy 500)where it curves up. Not permanent but sure beats guessing. And actually is repeatable.
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
    Male Guanaco out in dry lakebed at 10,800 feet south of Arequipa.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
    CastingFool's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Climax, Michigan
    Posts
    1,936
    Naphtali, regarding my earlier post, the 2-3/4" groups at 50 yds were achieved with a slug barrel that had iron sights. I eventually bought a saddle mount, and mounted a 2.5x scope. Group size did not shrink, but I surely could see my target a lot better. I was using a Rem 870.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    3,261
    There are a number of ways to go about this, depending on what gun you have, and how involved you want to get. If your barrel has a vented rib, you are in luck. Williams sells sights that clamp onto the rib. They can be temporary, but are also a fantastic permanent solution. Let us know what you have.

    As for accuracy, I'm assuming this is a plain old smooth bore shotgun. You may see better here and there, but day in and day out, a very good load will deliver about 3" groups at 50 yards with the best loads. For round ball, I find 4" at 50 is typical too. The slugs you will want to try for sure are the Brenneke classic, Remington slugger (try both 1oz and 7/8oz), and Federal truball. I've yet to see Winchester shoot good. About the only sabot slug worth trying would be the Brenneke TKO.

    To get an honest 4" at 75 yards, you may have to do some work. Something as simple as shimming the barrel can have a huge effect. Or maybe you will get lucky right out of the gate.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master bikerbeans's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,927
    Without a rifled barrel I wouldn't expect much from most sabots as they are designed for rifled barrels. I would start with the federal truball slug.

    BB

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    The Abyss
    Posts
    670
    What BB said! The Federal Trueball is consistently the most accurate factory slug in both my 870 and M500 smoothbores. The Brennekes are very accurate also but the Trueballs are less expensive and, generally, more available.
    "We take a thousand moments for granted thinking there will be a thousand more to come. Each day, each breath, each beat of your heart is a gift. Live with love & joy, tomorrow is not promised to anyone......"

    unknown

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    996
    To clear up my less than clear original post, . . .
    - Plain barrel without ventilated rib.
    - Smooth cylinder bore without rifling.
    ***
    Having a non-rifled barrel, there appears to be near-consensus to test non-saboted slug ammunition first. Does anyone have strong reservations about starting with non-saboted slug ammunition?
    ***
    I have a Philippines-made 4x Nikon telescopic sight I intend to install on my 22LR rifle. Do you believe I can duct tape it to the shotgun's receiver so the scope will remain affixed for 10 shots? If it's likely to stay where I put it for 10 shots, there's no issue with putting it back on for every series. After all, I don't care where a shot hits on the target ó only that the next few go to the same one. I mention 10 shots because the first few will be on very large, very close piece of sheeting with a large "X" printed within a square. When I regulated my Pedersoli Kodiak double rifle many years ago, I found such a target helpful. An "X" within square I find much easier to use as a bullseye than a conventional bullseye within concentric circles.
    Itís so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then donít say it. Sam Levinson

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    3,261
    No, absolutely no chance any kind of tape will hold a scope on with any kind of accuracy. To even get a scope to work on a pump or auto shotgun without a cantilever mount requires that you pin or at least tightly shim the barrel. A single shot, bolt, or even sxs shotgun can be drilled and taped for the mount with no further work. What is the gun exactly. Make, model, gauge, etc.?

    If you have a pump or auto, you can buy what's called a saddle mount, which is a scope mount that mounts through your receiver, usually through the trigger group pin holes. They are flaky, but with a few tricks you should be able to get it reasonably sturdy. Usually it's a balancing act of getting them just tight enough without binding the action, plus I always found it necessary to glue shims under the mount, near the front. It is not at all an ideal set up, but beats a bead sight, and may be as good as proper rifle sights. It is not as good as a well mounted scope. With this, you need to shim the barrel. Something as simple as pop cans can be cut and fit between the barrel extension and the inside of the frame. Get it as tight as you can so that the barrel is not moving around each shot.

    Honestly I would be looking at mounting some kinds of rifle sights on it, or properly mounting a scope if that is what you prefer. Some have had decent luck with only JB weld in holding on a rear sight. You can buy clamp on front sights.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Beautiful Idaho
    Posts
    2,077
    Naphtali: While duct tape is the fixall for us rednek types for everthing from tire chains to window sealant I wouldn't count on it holding a scope on tightly enough to be an improvement over the front bead. Gp

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    3,261
    As for ammo, all a sabot is, is a plastic wad that holds an under sized slug. Most of the sabot offerings out there today are a bullet, often a handgun bullet. They will not stabilize at all in a smooth bore obviously. Limited numbers like the Brenneke TKO will stabilize, but I still wouldn't bother. What is the intended purpose? For your regular deer gun, a rifled slug works fine, and often produces great accuracy. A Brenneke classic slug is technically a rifled slug, but it is in a different class that would be suitable for big game, even moose and brown bear. Brenneke classic is my go to for accuracy, with a close second with the Remington slugger. The Federal truball is not the #1 most accurate slug in any of my guns, but it usually does quite well.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Central Virginia
    Posts
    4,246
    I've had very very good results with smoothbore guns shot from the bags with Foster slugs out to 50 yards . Sometimes even from double barrels .

    I have a Browning A-5 12 MAG with the smooth slugger barrel shots very nice groups at 50 same for the Hastings rifled barrel with sabot slugs . FWIW I also had very passable accuracy with the 28" vent rib mod barrel for the A-5 MAG shooting Fosters .

    The BIGGEST detriment I saw in the whole process were the somewhat coarse rifle sights on the two barrels . And amazingly I've also gotten better then expected at 50 yards with a plain old front bead .

    When it comes to top shelf accuracy with a slug gun I defer every time to fully rifled scope sighted something shooting factory loaded sabot slugs . At present I have a Savage 220 20 gauge fully rifled with a Leupold 3-9 on top that will rival most deer rifles when I use Remington 2 3/4" AccuTip slugs . Also had a Savage 210F that was the same way with Remington 12 gauge 2 3/4" AccuTip slugs . Only problem with the Savage 12 gauge was it liked to thump a skoosh and a half more than the 20 gauge .

    And with that being said "some" of my homemade 10 gauge 2 7/8" slug loads can be a bit at the bench especially when I'm using the 600 grain or larger slugs . But in their defense most of my 10 gauge doubles weigh over 9 1/2 pounds so that calms them considerably .
    Go Manny Pacquiao !!!

    Parker's , 6.5mm's , 444 Marlin's and my family in the Philippines

  17. #17
    Boolit Master Cap'n Morgan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    1,143
    As others have noticed it's absolutely possible to shoot a shotgun well using only the front bead. Of course a scope will improve groups, but not as much as one would think.
    The distance from the sighting eye to the front bead on my shotguns are 40" or more. With a constant 'cheek weld' this works surprisingly well for short range, fast shooting.
    Cap'n Morgan

  18. #18
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    91
    Don't even bother with the scope if you're not planning to shoot beyond 75 yards, and don't have a rifled barrel. The recoil will destroy a .22 scope if you can even keep it attached to the gun. For a temporary rear sight, cut a fine notch in a tiny scrap of wood, blacken it with a marker or something, and stick it to the barrel with some less than permanent glue. Wood glue, Elmer's, even hot glue might work if you keep it cool, and you can scrub it off later. Foster slugs are where I'd start...and probably end. One sabot that might work is Winchester's BRI sabot, if you can find any. Beware, you may find that slug shooting is addictive and soon find yourself in possession of numerous molds, strange wads, cards and fillers, presses, many guns and no money.

  19. #19
    Vendor Sponsor

    W.R.Buchanan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ojai CA
    Posts
    8,016
    Exactly what kind of shotgun is this? Make, Model?

    If it's a Mossberg or Remington you can buy a rifled barrel with sights off ebay and not have to mouse something together.

    I just got a 18.5" Smoothbore barrel with Rifle Sights for my HD M500. The intention behind this barrel was to increase my accuracy with slugs out to 75 yards.

    With sights on the barrel you can actually sight the gun in to where POA=POI and do pretty well. With a scope if the barrel is not solidly attached to the receiver it won't repeat its position each shot and groups will suffer.. Barrels for mounting scopes for 870's and m500's are cantilevered off the barrel so they work well.

    There are alot of variables connected to slug shooting... We know most all of them here but at the end of the day you will have to test and see what works best for you and your gun.

    What kind of gun is that?

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check