Lee PrecisionMidSouth Shooters SupplyTitan ReloadingInline Fabrication
RepackboxRotoMetals2WidenersADvertise here

Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Crazy Thougt on a 1858 Pistol

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    380

    Crazy Thougt on a 1858 Pistol

    I like these things, but I don't like the cleanup mess. With all the powder coating going on, why couldn't a powder coated wadcutter or similar be sized properly and seated and shot without the lube?

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,089
    Sure you could do it. No problem really. If I remember correctly some guys do that already. But you want to use a lubricated patch or wad between the propellant and the base of the bullet to prevent chain fires. The main purpose of the lube around and over the top of the bullets is to prevent chain fires. One issue with the conical bullets is that it reduces the chamber capacity for propellant. Thus the round ball being shorter wound up being more popular for getting extra velocity out of the bullets.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,061
    The lube is for keeping the fouling soft. It builds up hard and crusty very quickly making loading very hard otherwise and is even harder to clean.
    QUIS CUSTODIET IPSOS CUSTODES?

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    OKC , Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,868
    I used to use heavy wax lube impregnated felt wads under the ball , had no chain fires with them.
    Seat the wad on top of the powder with the rammer then seat the ball.
    One of Elmer Kieths books he mentions cutting wads for this from old felt hats with a wad punch.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    380
    So how is this new triple 7 powder? Is it corrosive like black, smoky as black, stinky as black, does it foul like black? Using a wad over the powder isn't a big deal to me, it's the grease mess, and of course the black powder mess.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    OKC , Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,868
    Quote Originally Posted by B R Shooter View Post
    So how is this new triple 7 powder? Is it corrosive like black, smoky as black, stinky as black, does it foul like black? Using a wad over the powder isn't a big deal to me, it's the grease mess, and of course the black powder mess.
    I do not use grease over the ball with the lubed felt wad under the ball.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,089
    If you use the lubricated felt wad between the powder and bullet, then you don't need the grease on top of the bullets. But if you used both it wouldn't hurt anything.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
    bigted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sweet Home Oregon
    Posts
    4,263
    Never occured to this pilgrim to PC round balls.

    Still n all tho, seems like I loaded some jacketed bullets over straight blackpowder with some success. Still got a pretty hard fouling tho. Baked on pretty tight and had a time getting it all out as with each shot ... it got ironed onto the bore.

    Report back with your results please.
    WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE...MORE WILL BE SAID THEN DONE

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Dan Cash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Western North Dakota
    Posts
    3,154
    Powder coating brings nothing to the table when shooting Black Powder; the lubricant is absolutely necessary for fouling control. Triple 7 is as corrosive as battery acid, fergeddaboudit. Water will wash the black powder residue out of the gun faster than you can clean a smokeless gun. Get your fingers black, dirty and greasy, enjoy the stink and Have fun.
    To paraphrase Ronald Reagan, the trouble with many shooting experts is not that they're ignorant; its just that they know so much that isn't so.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    OKC , Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,868
    You need the lube on top off the ball or a lubed wad under the ball to prevent chain fires , in addition to keeping the fouling soft.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

    stubshaft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Southernmost State of the Union
    Posts
    4,329
    Powder coating a ball does noting to prevent leading as it is sheared off in the loading process. It has been shown through numerous tests that chain fires are caused by a loose cap or ill fitting cap and not from the front of the cylinder unless using a severely undersize ball.
    Without the dark night, you would never see the bright stars...

    You can live forever if you give up all of the things that make it worthwhile.

    Why a .45...Because they don't make a .46!

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    1,729
    Triple 7 is 15% hotter than BP. I use the vegetable spray PAM (or a cheap substitute) for lube. But, and this is important, you must clean your gun very well after using PAM. I completely strip and clean my BP guns so it's not a problem. I found that PAM was the only lube that worked well on my Remington .44 cylinder pin/arbor (there's no grease groove on the arbor), and on my Paterson .36. Just make sure you clean the guns.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master JoeJames's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Arkansas Delta
    Posts
    522
    Elmer Keith in "Hell I was there" said that old Civil War cavalrymen claimed that the round balls were more certain to put a man down than the conical.
    You Can Vote Your Way Into Socialism, But You Have To Shoot Your Way Out of it.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master


    Walks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,974
    My Dad was using felt wads back in the early 1960's for His 1851 Navy. He'd use felt wads cut from "can't remember what or how" it went;
    1) Powder
    2) Wad
    3) Grease/Crisco "ball" small pea size
    4) Lead Ball
    5) Lube to fill chambers, ONLY for 1st 6 shots

    Used boiling water to clean up. Never a problem with powder fouling.
    He brought a Coleman stove to the range for Coffee and to cook a Hot Lunch for His Boys. Right on the Tailgate of the old station wagon or pickup. Had a SMALL ancient tea pot for hot water.

    Still works for me, I just use WONDER WADS these days.
    I HATE auto-correct


    Happiness is a Warm GUN & more ammo to shoot in it.

    My Experience and My Opinion, are just that, Mine.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
    bigted's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Sweet Home Oregon
    Posts
    4,263
    Here is a procedure that has started to take hold in my approach with the cap n ball revolvers. Not new by any means nor my invention ... just a program that works for me.

    I make paper cartridges on a tapered stick ... using zig zag cig papers. In 36 cal, I put 22 grains of 3F Old E powder followed by a .380 ball. Then I twist the tail tightly onto the ball top ... followed by melting BP lube [SPG is great] and dunking the tail, ball and around 1/4 inch of paper in the melted lube.

    44 cal gets 30 grains of the same powder.

    After the lube sets ... I clip the tail close to the ball.

    Loading these ... there is plenty of lube under and over the ball to cause no more need for any further lube and mess.

    I have shot 55 of these cartridges in a row as a test and the last one loaded like the first. The accuracy remained throughout as well.

    Cleanup is easy with water/ballistol mixed 7 to 10 parts water to 1 part ballistol.

    GREAT FUN!!!
    WHEN ALL IS SAID AND DONE...MORE WILL BE SAID THEN DONE

  16. #16
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Ventura Co.
    Posts
    93
    I'd like to see this ^^^^^^ You have a couple pics?

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    OKC , Oklahoma
    Posts
    1,868
    Quote Originally Posted by bigted View Post
    Here is a procedure that has started to take hold in my approach with the cap n ball revolvers. Not new by any means nor my invention ... just a program that works for me.

    I make paper cartridges on a tapered stick ... using zig zag cig papers. In 36 cal, I put 22 grains of 3F Old E powder followed by a .380 ball. Then I twist the tail tightly onto the ball top ... followed by melting BP lube [SPG is great] and dunking the tail, ball and around 1/4 inch of paper in the melted lube.

    44 cal gets 30 grains of the same powder.

    After the lube sets ... I clip the tail close to the ball.

    Loading these ... there is plenty of lube under and over the ball to cause no more need for any further lube and mess.

    I have shot 55 of these cartridges in a row as a test and the last one loaded like the first. The accuracy remained throughout as well.

    Cleanup is easy with water/ballistol mixed 7 to 10 parts water to 1 part ballistol.

    GREAT FUN!!!
    That sounds really slick !

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    380
    Reading another thread about this, there was talk of replacement cylinders for 45 Colt. I have a Taylors and sure enough they make such a thing. The first thing that came to mind was, by using cartridge cases, does that change the classification of the gun?

  19. #19
    Boolit Master Harter66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    90 miles North of Texarkana 9 miles from OK in the green hell
    Posts
    4,493
    BR no it doesn't . Even changing the hammer to a fixed firing pin and conventional cylinder with a loading notch doesn't change it . It's when you add the actual loading gate that it becomes a real gun .
    In the time of darkest defeat,our victory may be nearest. Wm. McKinley.

    I was young and stupid then I'm older now. Me 1992 .

    Richard Lee Hart 6/29/39-7/25/18


    Without trial we cannot learn and grow . It is through our stuggles that we become stronger .
    Brother I'm going to be Pythagerus , DiVinci , and Atlas all rolled into one soon .

  20. #20
    Boolit Master Good Cheer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    the Ark
    Posts
    3,501
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJames View Post
    Elmer Keith in "Hell I was there" said that old Civil War cavalrymen claimed that the round balls were more certain to put a man down than the conical.
    Makes sense; a matter of the rate of displacement of a projectile flying through a body. At the range somebody was liable to get hit with a percussion revolver the round ball hadn't lost much velocity and it displaced more tissue more rapidly than a longer and heavier projectile would have. Longer means less powder in the chamber and heavier means slower. On top of that the nose of the ball was likely as not made flatter in cross section during loading, more closely resembling a wide flat point such as is widely favored these days for hunting.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check