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Thread: Sig 1911-22 Help

  1. #1

    Sig 1911-22 Help

    Hoping for some new ideas to get a sig 1911-22 to work. Bought brand new and from the get go, it has never been reliable. Pretty much any problem you could have with an auto loader, this one had it. Read all the 'fixes' that are out there and did all of them. It has been well thru the break in period. It has had all the over spray paint removed from all the rails, pretty much removed from everywhere except the exterior finish. I have used several different magazines. I have replaced the magazine springs with upgraded springs. I have tried stretching the magazine springs. I have tried every available 22lr ammo. CCI mini mags and CCI Stingers do seem to be the least problematic but I refuse to own a gun that only works with expensive ammo. I have polished the slide and frame rails. And lastly I bought a kit from CW accessories that had new bushing, guide rod and spring that also did not fix the issue.

    So after all of this the main issue it has now is this, and its crazy and makes no sense to me. Loaded with 10 rounds in the mag, chamber and fire the 1st round, and the second round always fails to feed. If you manually retract slide and chamber it will mostly run rest of the mag fine. Does this with all the mags I have. So I thought ok, load 8 rounds and be done with the issue. Except loaded with 8, it fires 1st round and you guessed it, fails to feed the next round.

    I have oriented the rounds any way possible in the mag with no help. Saw a video that a guy had the 2nd round FTF issue and claimed he fixed it by fully loading the mag then running the follower up and down a few times and never had the issue again loading this way. Well that didnt work either.

    My work around right now that seems to work ok is load 9 cheap whatever rounds, then the 10th round is a CCI stinger. This seems to work but is a pain and not really a solution.

    I am out of ideas other than polishing more, but I doubt thats going to help and may end up doing more harm than good. If you run the slide back and forth on the frame it doesnt bind or feel rough.

    I know I could just run it with the expensive ammo but if it works with rounds 3-10 with cheap ammo, then in my mind it should also work on round 1-2.

    Anyone have any ideas or had similar issue that you were able to fix?

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    Beyond the obvious option #1 fix that if you it “bought brand new” you should have sent it back to SIG for repair, you can still call SIG and after re-installing the original parts send it back for warranty repair. That’s what I’d do.
    Other than that do you insert mags with slide locked back? I’ve seen a lot of pistols FTF the 2nd round if mag is inserted with slide closed.
    Do mags seat all the way up into grip or wiggle a bit? Just yesterday I help a young women with a Ruger 22 pistol, it would FTFeed and / or fire 2nd round consistently. Tried several mags, same problem. Only way I could get it to function was by pushing mag up w/left hand while operating pistol. I believe the mag catch wasn’t holding the mag up far enough to function reliably.
    I suggested she try option #1, call the manufacturer & send it back. Why should anyone have to repair a new pistol or anything else? I’ve seen a several new SIGs that had to go back for repair in the past year including a Super Target P210 that they finally replaced on the third try. Not too impressed with their quality as of late but they do respond.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Bmi48219 View Post
    Beyond the obvious option #1 fix that if you it “bought brand new” you should have sent it back to SIG for repair, you can still call SIG and after re-installing the original parts send it back for warranty repair. That’s what I’d do.
    Other than that do you insert mags with slide locked back? I’ve seen a lot of pistols FTF the 2nd round if mag is inserted with slide closed.
    Do mags seat all the way up into grip or wiggle a bit? Just yesterday I help a young women with a Ruger 22 pistol, it would FTFeed and / or fire 2nd round consistently. Tried several mags, same problem. Only way I could get it to function was by pushing mag up w/left hand while operating pistol. I believe the mag catch wasn’t holding the mag up far enough to function reliably.
    I suggested she try option #1, call the manufacturer & send it back. Why should anyone have to repair a new pistol or anything else? I’ve seen a several new SIGs that had to go back for repair in the past year including a Super Target P210 that they finally replaced on the third try. Not too impressed with their quality as of late but they do respond.
    Forgot to mention that yes I've tried loading the mags with slide in both positions also, same result either way. And I had thought of sending it back, but figured I could most likely get it sorted out. Figured I'd get the usual 'there's nothing wrong' and it'd just be more hassel than it'd be worth.

    I will try pushing up on the mag, have not done that. Haven't noticed anything strange with either mag but it is sure worth trying, thanks for the suggestions.
    Last edited by hawkenhunter50; 03-07-2020 at 08:03 PM.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

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    When it fails to feed the 2nd round, exactly what happens? What is the nature of the jam? Stovepipe? Halfway out of the mag and stuck, but still orientated forward? Nose dive? Nose crammed against feed ramp? Exactly what happens, and is it consistent from jam to jam?

    Does it matter if, as you load the magazine, care is taken to position the rim of the 2nd cartridge in front of the 3rd cartridge's rim?

    What is your speculation as to why the CCI ammo works better than other ammo? Because it's hotter? I recently learned in a phone conversation with CCI, the results of which I posted somewhere on the forum but now forget where I posted it, that there is a surprising tolerance variation in the specifications of the rim diameter of their ammo. The specs are within those set by SAAMI, but can vary from lot to lot within those specs. If you think that it's because the ammo is hotter, then my semi-auto experience would lead me to believe that the recoil spring is too stiff for weaker loads to function properly as they don't make the slide recoil hard enough, fast enough, to compress the spring enough to provide sufficient velocity and force on the return to reliably strip and chamber the next round.

    I have 3 similar pistols, a Chiappa, a GSG, and a Walther/Colt and all work pretty well, but I do not have a SIG. The Chiappa is the least expensive of the 3 and seems to be the best of the lot, but the spring seems very weak compared to the other two. I acquired them a bit before the big .22 ammo shortage of a few years ago, and so have only tested them with what I had on hand, and not the spread of brands available today. If I recall correctly I used Winchester Wildcats and Peters with the truncated bullet. The first time that I pulled back the slide I was amazed at the lack of resistance and said to myself, "This will never work," and "The slide is going to come off the frame and hit me in the head." But--it works well.

    Possibly you are asking too much in expecting your .22 to function perfectly with all ammo you want to feed it. You may be able to set it up to reliably work with any given brand of ammo, but get less than reliable performance from others. Lots of the 1911-22's big brothers, the .45s, won't handle all ammo right out of the box without some fine tuning, and even after an expensive action job may still balk at feeding short, blunt nosed ammo.

    Another possibility, the magazines are defective. There have been several semi-auto pistols produced in recent years that suffered from poor magazine design or manufacture, an example being the Remington .380. Usually the magazines have been redesigned and the problems mostly went away. The fact that you could have two, and both be defective, is not beyond the realm of possibility, since they were probably produced at the same place at or near the same time on the same machinery.

    One more suggestion. Phone Sig and discuss the problem with them. I don't know why it is, but consumers seem to be reluctant to use the telephone and/or e-mail. Most big companies have one, sometimes two, folks who are paid to answer the phone and discuss problems. Believe me, they don't want your problem to go unaddressed or unsolved as their reputation and sales are on the line. First, (before calling Germany!), call the importer or USA storefront. No doubt some folks send their guns in for warranty work and there is/are in-house gunsmith(s). Ask to chat with the gunsmith and lay out your problem. You'd be surprised at how many problems I've solved that way and the information I've gleaned. You may get untold good results like being informed of a recall, free parts replacements, or how to tweek it to make it work properly. You can almost be guaranteed that if you're experiencing a certain problem others have also had trouble and it won't be news to the gunsmith.

    Good luck with this. If you lived just down the road you could drop by with it and we'd see what we could figure out, but I can't fix it remotely-- only try to give you some ideas.

    DG
    Last edited by Der Gebirgsjager; 03-07-2020 at 09:39 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Der Gebirgsjager View Post
    When it fails to feed the 2nd round, exactly what happens? What is the nature of the jam? Stovepipe? Halfway out of the mag and stuck, but still orientated forward? Nose dive? Nose crammed against feed ramp? Exactly what happens, and is it consistent from jam to jam?

    Does it matter if, as you load the magazine, care is taken to position the rim of the 2nd cartridge in front of the 3rd cartridge's rim?

    What is your speculation as to why the CCI ammo works better than other ammo? Because it's hotter? I recently learned in a phone conversation with CCI, the results of which I posted somewhere on the forum but now forget where I posted it, that there is a surprising tolerance variation in the specifications of the rim diameter of their ammo. The specs are within those set by SAAMI, but can vary from lot to lot within those specs. If you think that it's because the ammo is hotter, then my semi-auto experience would lead me to believe that the recoil spring is too stiff for weaker loads to function properly as they don't make the slide recoil hard enough, fast enough, to compress the spring enough to provide sufficient velocity and force on the return to reliably strip and chamber the next round.

    I have 3 similar pistols, a Chiappa, a GSG, and a Walther/Colt and all work pretty well, but I do not have a SIG. The Chiappa is the least expensive of the 3 and seems to be the best of the lot, but the spring seems very weak compared to the other two. I acquired them a bit before the big .22 ammo shortage of a few years ago, and so have only tested them with what I had on hand, and not the spread of brands available today. If I recall correctly I used Winchester Wildcats and Peters with the truncated bullet. The first time that I pulled back the slide I was amazed at the lack of resistance and said to myself, "This will never work," and "The slide is going to come off the frame and hit me in the head." But--it works well.

    Possibly you are asking too much in expecting your .22 to function perfectly with all ammo you want to feed it. You may be able to set it up to reliably work with any given brand of ammo, but get less than reliable performance from others. Lots of the 1911-22's big brothers, the .45s, won't handle all ammo right out of the box without some fine tuning, and even after an expensive action job may still balk at feeding short, blunt nosed ammo.

    Another possibility, the magazines are defective. There have been several semi-auto pistols produced in recent years that suffered from poor magazine design or manufacture, an example being the Remington .380. Usually the magazines have been redesigned and the problems mostly went away. The fact that you could have two, and both be defective, is not beyond the realm of possibility, since they were probably produced at the same place at or near the same time on the same machinery.

    One more suggestion. Phone Sig and discuss the problem with them. I don't know why it is, but consumers seem to be reluctant to use the telephone and/or e-mail. Most big companies have one, sometimes two, folks who are paid to answer the phone and discuss problems. Believe me, they don't want your problem to go unaddressed or unsolved as their reputation and sales are on the line. First, (before calling Germany!), call the importer or USA storefront. No doubt some folks send their guns in for warranty work and there is/are in-house gunsmith(s). Ask to chat with the gunsmith and lay out your problem. You'd be surprised at how many problems I've solved that way and the information I've gleaned. You may get untold good results like being informed of a recall, free parts replacements, or how to tweek it to make it work properly. You can almost be guaranteed that if you're experiencing a certain problem others have also had trouble and it won't be news to the gunsmith.

    Good luck with this. If you lived just down the road you could drop by with it and we'd see what we could figure out, but I can't fix it remotely-- only try to give you some ideas.

    DG
    Thanks for the reply.
    So it fails to feed the 2nd round like the slide doesn't recoil far enough back to strip the next round. It is just an empty chamber. No stovepipe/jam condition.

    I havent checked rim position yet. I have tried nose up/down positioning which didnt help. I will try some experiments with rim position, I would have guessed that theyd line up like that by default but perhaps not.

    Yes I feel CCI work better because they are hotter. Especially with the Stinger, I think they advertise 1640 FPS on my box, so significantly hotter. Mini mags have still had the issue, just a lesser rate. I have swapped the recoil spring as you mentioned although I don't know what either was rated. 1 was stock the other came from CW accessories. Neither 'feel' to me like they're too stiff, I'd say the opposite actually, although I dont have another 22 like this to compare to.

    Your GSG and the Sig to my knowledge are the same gun, I heard GSG makes them for SIG.

    I am actually not trying to get it to feed with all ammo. Just some ammo that is easy to find and normally priced. I'd be happy with whatever it was that fits this. Ive tried Blazers, Federal plated bulk from walmart, Federal auto match, winchester 333, winchester 555, etc you get the idea. My goal isnt to make them all work, just 1.

    Agree with the magazine comment, I leaned towards that from the beginning. Just hard to justify spending more money on this gun at this point. I did buy a 2nd one but if you bought any for your GSG you know what they cost, not cheap. But perhaps I should consider buying another now that its been a few years.

    Good suggestion for calling. I had only thought about sending it back like I mentioned earlier, which I am not wanting to do, but good idea just to run the problem by them for advice.

    Thanks for taking the time to help.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master

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    You are welcome.

    It sure sounds like a combination of ammo, recoil spring, and magazines to me. If the chamber is empty for the 2nd shot, then the slide didn't travel back far enough to pick up the cartridge on the way forward, and that would be because the spring is too strong. However, the position of the 2nd cartridge in the magazine can be different than the first, but if subsequent cartridges feed satisfactorily then that is unlikely to be the cause. I think I'd try cutting off one coil at a time to see if I couldn't find the balance.

    I believe that I've seen replacement mags available from CDNN, but I'd get a reading about the situation from Sig before spending the money.

    I think I knew, but had forgotten, that Sig and GSG were the same product. It's pretty obvious when one looks at the photos in the catalogs, as they both have the same little hex-head disassembly screw. I would say the my GSG is the best made, best appearing of the 3 I own, and it functions without a hitch, so the Sig should be fixable.

    Please let us know how it all turns out.

  7. #7
    So a couple updates. I tried pushing up on the magazine while shooting and still had the issue. Also tried to manipulate the way the rims orient in the magazine, but see no way of doing this. They automatically line up rim in front of the previous cartridge.

    I removed the shock buffer from the guide rod and it shot much better. Not perfect but was shooting it fairly dirty and was having some success at getting an entire magazine here and there to go without a hitch. I suspect with a good cleaning and lubing, it would operate even better. Also it was shooting federal bulk and winchester lead bulk during the testing. Which both previously did not work well at all.

    So next question. Will shooting without the buffer cause damage? Has anyone switched out the stock buffer with something else? Why would the buffer cause such a condition in the first place?

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

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    Ahhh...there's always a previously unmentioned detail, in this instance a shok buff. Sounds like maybe removal of the item allows the slide to travel back just a bit farther to better utilize the return force of the spring. Also, cleaning never hurts.

    As to whether or not the frame will suffer damage without the buffer, only time will tell. I assume that it did not come from the factory with the buffer? Most full size 1911s in .45 ACP don't come with a buffer installed. Most fire many thousands of rounds of standard velocity ammo without ill results. Some very few do develop cracked frames, and many more that are subjected to heavy loads. Those routinely being used with heavy loads usually have a buffer and a heavier recoil spring. Since the GSG-type guns are alloy one could expect them to take less punishment than a steel frame .22, but if the manufacturer didn't include an installed buffer then they probably expect longevity without one. If it came with one installed, then that also tells a story.

    As previously discussed, most semi-autos are a balance of slide, spring(s), ammo, and reliable magazines. Based on your report, that the pistol now functions fairly well using the more common standard velocity brands, I would assume it is very reliable with the hotter ammo? I think I'd perhaps try another factory recoil spring and replace the magazines.

    Glad to hear that your perseverance has met with some success.

  9. #9
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    ShooterAZ's Avatar
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    I have a Marvel 1911 conversion, and it came equipped with one Sig factory magazine. It never functioned properly from the start. My conversion is super accurate, so I was determined to get it running right. Fortunately the fix for me was an easy one. I purchased some Pro-Mag magazines from Midway and now it's pretty much 100% reliable. I'm not sure if these magazines are compatible with the your Sig or not, but it might be worth a try. I'll also add that these magazines need to be kept pretty clean. Once considerable fouling begins to build up on the feed lips, reliability really starts to suffer. The Sig magazine sent with my gun was definitely the source of my problems.

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1506394316

  10. #10
    It looks like it came with the buffer. I couldn't honestly remember. As I said I had bought the CW accessories guide rod and spring kit. Couldn't remember if it came with that or the original gun. I checked the schematics in the manual and it does show a buffer. So it seems as it should function with it, that's the reason for my asking about damage without it. I cleaned it good this morning, will be doing some more testing before buying any parts/magazines. It looks like it is now discontinued by Sig along with the Sig branded magazines. Midway still shows GSG mags, but out of stock and still expensive.

    Shooter AZ, thanks for the link to the Pro-mag magazines, I'll try to determine if they're compatible. Much more reasonable price and would be worth trying at that price.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    I know nothing about SiG 1911 22. Several years ago I paid top dollar for the SiG Mosquito 22 when it came out. I had every problem with it too. Got rid of it ASAP.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check