I will second the redding body die. I started getting hard to chamber rounds at loading #3, the body die took care of it. I assume the bulge comes from having two different head spacing surfaces (the shoulder and the belt). I am not sure but I assume that when I neck size and headspace off the shoulder some portion of the case is not as well supported near the belt. Just a guess. Oh yeah, 300wm, tika t3.
I have one of Larry's collet sizing dies and use it on all my belted mags its an awesome die
6.5 Rem Mag
300 Win Mag
7mm Rem Mag
270 Wby Mag
350 Rem Mag
Never had an brass related issues with my M-70 Classic 338W, other than case growing. Which is standard for belted mags. Solve that problem with RCBS X-die when full length sizing.
Winelover
Seems like a useful tool if you shoot a lot of magnum rounds. Brass is not cheap.
Hard to justify for most people. Use new or once fired cases for hunting (maybe 10/year) and the older cases for load development and sighting in. But I am recoil sensitive and do not shoot my .300 Mag for "fun".
.300 Win Mag on sale now:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1021376788
I got a couple of hundred cases when I got my .300 and have never loaded any more than twice so not sure if I will have the problem. I have been using Lee dies so nothing fancy. Good info though, in case I run into an issue.
Don Verna
If you buy 'used' magnum cases it is good to have on hand. I have one and have used it over the years and was glad to have it on hand for those 'bargain' buys of 'once' fired cases. I do both 7 rem mag and 300 win mag. It may not be for everyone but it was a good investment for me.
West of Beaver Dick's Ferry.
First of all I appreciate the information given by all in this post. Second, I think F&F hit on, what may be the main problem with many Magnum chambered rifles - the chambers that have been cut a bit too large (but still in specs). I have one of those larger chambered rifles in a Weatherby Vanguard 7RemMag that has a Weatherby 7MagWthy barrel with a 1:10" twist. In addition to the slightly larger chamber, it also has a longer lead, considered "Freebore", that slows down factory loads. While this freebore reduces pressures and velocity, it can also be used to enhance the bullet speed by using longer than normal (COAL) dimensions when loading, thus giving more space in the cartridge for powder.
When I first started loading for this rifle I could usually only get 5 to 7 loads out of most brands of brass. The tell-tell bright ring around the base, just in front of the belt, would appear and could be felt inside with a bent paper clip (Warning of impending head separation!).
Next, I started partial resizing the case after the first firing and bought a Lee Collet die to neck resize only; however, It did not increase my reloading count by more than a couple of rounds. I ended up relegating much of my brass that had been fired over 5 times (without defects) to mid-range and reduced loading.
My current procedure, mentioned by a "scribe" in one of the shooting magazines is: a) fireform new brass with a reduced load b) Neck size, or partial size the cases for the next and subsequent loading until they do not chamber easily, then full length resize c) load the case as you would normally load, all the way to your "recorded maximum" loads.
I have been using this method of loading for better than a year now and have reached the threshold of the point the "bright right" usually appears, but so far has not. All these newer cases still chamber easily and appear to have quit stretching beyond that of comparable .270 or 30/06 cases loaded multiple times (above the 7 time criteria).
The theory is that because the 7RemMag has a belt (that's not needed) and a 25 degree shoulder it seeks to headspace off the shoulder. The first firing of the cartridge thusly causes the brass to stretch further in a larger chamber weakening the case in front of the belt from the get go, just like a non-belted case with a headspace problem! The results is the damage has already been done to the overly stretched brass on the very first firing (including factory rounds) and subsequent firings show pressure signs much earlier than expected.
My testing will continue now that I have 100 new cases in two different brands that has been fireformed and shot multiple times. I will report my findings at a latter date when the weather improves.
Last edited by kaiser; 03-07-2020 at 12:53 PM.
Onto 3-4x sizings on 300WM without a problem chambering. Always full length size using a Redding die. I have no doubt this can be a problem with some setups or chambers. I just haven’t had a problem yet.
midsouth shooters supply always has Hornady brass cheap,they buy bulk and break it down in 100 bags,all calibersOriginally Posted by dverna
well I got my larry willis die in today,time to get some cases cleaned and sized to see how many really need this,but at .51 cents to a dollar apiece for cases it doesnt have to save many to pay for it self
It's luck. It's not a matter of die brands, rifle brands or case brands, as such. Everything made by man has a range of "in tolerance" dimensions, usually just a few thousanths in each direction, and all brands follow the same SAAMI specifications so it doesn't matter what color die box you buy. Thus, it's pure bad luck if your tools stack tolerances toward the "too tight" side for your snug chamber. And slightly soft cases accelerate the swelling that can lead to chambering difficulties. But, most magnum reloaders will never experience that problem so they don't need a solution.
I don't have a belted case rifle in my safe and never will, but I reload for a few friends who do. When one guy started having trouble chambering his several times reloaded cases I checked his chamber and FL sized case dimensions just ahead of the belt. I found his sticky cases were at max plus 1/2 thou above SAAMI diameter and his chamber was on the small side of SAAMI; a half thou is close but it's a lot of metal-to-metal difference when pushing on a bolt!
That was some 40 years ago, the excellent Willis collet sizer die wasn't available back then. I found a yard sale set of magnum dies and modified the sizer so it would squeeze the cases a tad more above the belt, about 2-3 thou smaller than the original sizer did; that fixed it.
SAAMI max diameter above the belt is .512". I lathe cut off the bottom of the die until the belt relief was gone and the internal diameter was .510". Then I ran a cheep 1/2" carbide concrete drill bit (to cut the case hardened steel) down from the top and stopped it about 1/8" above the bottom of the die, then smoothed and polished the exposed hard cased skin, inside and out. I push the cases into that die to just kiss the top of the belt, it puts the loaded belt bulge down to the middle of the SAAMI case tolerance range and everything works fine.
Wish I'd thought to market it. Never guessed it was a common enough problem to sell my "invention". Oh well, I still have my Social Security check coming in so what's another million $, more or less. ??
Last edited by 1hole; 03-07-2020 at 04:26 PM.
Like I stated I don't know why some have issues and some don't. What I do know is my personal experience. While I have several belted mag rifles the only ones that I have put a lot of rounds through are 1,000 yard rifles on 7mm Rem. Mag or 300 Win Mag. I do all my own barreling and chambering. I also do some work for friends.
I custom spec my reamers. I use carbide exclusively mostly from PTG. My chambers would definitely qualify for being in the tight side. When I chamber I set headspace off the shoulder not the rim. On request PTG will build headspace gauges for belted mags that headspace on the shoulder and not the rim. I am a big fan of RCBS case mics or using the Hornady headspace comparator. I hold the shoulder clearance to .001" min and .002" max. Loads are warm enough the the primer pockets are gone in 8 to 10 firings. Never had bulge issues
Last edited by M-Tecs; 03-07-2020 at 06:43 PM.
2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."
– Amber Veal
"The Highest form of ignorance is when your reject something you don't know anything about".
- Wayne Dyer
always set your sizing die on shoulder headspace rather than the belt and there will be no problem
I use the old school option. When I need to full length resize, I use the arbor press and my Lyman old school hand sizing die. This sizes right up to the belt on my 338wm, never had an issue clambering anything sized with this.
Scott
Scott
You can easily judge the character of others by how they treat those who they think can do nothing for them.
Head space is where on the belted cases?
Chambers had too much oil lube or other liquid in them. I've been watching guys at the range. They are cleaning there guns after every other three or five shots. Okay about cleaning but, oil and liquids have no place in a chamber or bore. At the high pressers I can not even think about the damage a few drops or residue would do in a chamber.
I never was taught to break in a barrel cleaning it this much, sight it in. Clean it, shoot a few more clean it. That was it. With test loads and other things be about say 20 round then clean a new rifle very good. Then start working the loads out, fine tuning if you will; that be say 20 or so. Clean it again. Buy now you should be getting the barrel broke in. Groups should be pulling in or getting very close to the load you like. Or on other hand thinking did I get a lemon or a sweet orange that I ordered. Remember they are all way over bore capacities and thats hard on every thing.
Only takes a little oil to make something junk.
I use cooking oil for most of my guns and bullets, no smell like the gun oils. No need for gloves. Everyone just looks at me. I use a little graphite in neck sizing if I need to see where I'm at.
Wipe or spray my cases/bullets with alcohol, to dry them and only oily film them to keep them from turning. Keep my chambers dry. Oil only the bolt and only a drop(s) here or there. Only time I oil is for long term storage.
Have a good one,
Teddy
I've loaded for a few different belted magnums and never thought that I needed more than the standard full length sizing die. But looking back I remember helping a friend get started loading for a 7mm Remington Magnum and having problems with a few cases chambering. This may have been a good place to use one of those.
I have 2 Ruger #1's and a Remington 700 chambered in belted mag calibers and have never had a problem with a bulge. I usually only neck size and anneal the brass every third use.
NRA Benefactor Member NRA Golden Eagle
Jamming a fired case into a FL sizer as far as we can make it go is a good idea ONLY if we're making ammo that will be as swapped around as factory stuff. One of the most significant advantages we handloaders have (but often overlook) is that we can custom resize to make ammo that actually fits our own chambers, and that minimises case stretch.
Forget about the belt, just adjust your size die so your cases rightly headspace off the shoulder and they won't "grow" any more than any other bottleneck cartridge. It's simple to do and can be done without tools but something like Hornady's headspace tool mounted on a precision caliper makes it easier.
the die works just as it is meant to,resize first then run problem cases thru the willis die,i think the reason I had so many bulged cases was from buying other peoples once fired cases,no problems now one way or the other
Larry was on all the forums promoting his die in 2010 and I bought one. They work. I have more belted case rifles than I could count. This makes hot loaded brass interchangeable between rifles.
10 years go by.
I am getting old and stopped building 300WM and 338WM rifles, as all I seem to do is shoot deer and antelope at long range.
.... now I am running 7mmRM so hot, I never reuse the brass. ... I am no longer a reloader, just a handloader.
As always, I headspace belted magnum rifles at 0.215", not the SAAMI 0.220" minimum, because I have never found any belted magnum brass over 0.215".
My factory rifles are OVER 0.220".............sad.
I've loaded for seven belted magnum cartridges from .264 through .375 and still load for four - 7x61, 7mm Rem., .300 H&H , and .300 Win. If the belt bulge has been there on any cartridges, I guess I've missed it. I can't even tell you for sure which sizing dies I use on all these, but most are the standard Redding. I size just enough to close the bolt with "very slight" resistance, a relative term sort of like the degree of crimp that means something different to everyone, but it has worked well for me.
With the 7x61, for example, after about five firings, resistance in chambering a case increases beyond the "slight" point and I'll full-length resize which bumps the shoulder just enough to permit easy chambering, like with a new case.
It would be interesting to examine and maybe even try one of these Willis dies out of curiosity, but certainly not out of need. Sounds like they work very well for some an are not necessary for others. Just a guess, but perhaps those with problems have an adjustment matter that needs correcting or have out of spec chambers, brass, or dies.
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