Q about adding tin to range scrap

[Tazlaw]

I have a source of range scrap. I can separate pistol from rifle. What is the general type of lead in the scrap? Is it mostly soft lead? Is there a difference between rifle and pistol? Main question, how much pewter might I need to add to general range lead for decent lower velocity loads? (45 APC, 30-30, 45-70).

[Leadmad]

Tazlaw, Most everyone will say 2 % pewter or tin, and those calibres you mention will be fine with that,

Most likely 80% of my casting is range scrap and once its cleaned up it gets 2 % pewter weather it needs it or not and casts lovely projectiles, more than likely a percentage of tin will exist in all range scrap but adding it after its smelted down is standard for me

Cheers

[Went2kck]

I have ben weighing and adding tin or pure lead to the mix until the weight of the mold given weight is achieved. Give or take a grain. Then I cast the pot of that mix and do it again. Seams to work so far for me

[Hickory]

If you have good fill-out without adding tin, then save your tin for those occasions where you really need it.

[BNE]

In general, (based on a lot of samples tested by me) range scrap is 1% Sb, 99% Pb. Plus or minus 0.5%. Rifle or pistol does not seem to matter.

Finding Sn in range scrap is very rare. So adding anywhere from 0.5 to 2% Sn is a good idea if you are able.

BNE.

[Green Frog]

I'm a little confused here. Depending on what is being shot at the range in question, You might see pure lead from jacketed bullet cores and swaged bullets, or if you are reclaiming previously cast bullets, they should already have tin in them from their last casting, right? Where would the tin have gone? Of course by definition range scrap is likely to be a mixture of different alloys from different kinds of bullets being fired there. You need to test your ingots of reclaimed alloy to know.

Once you have checked the hardness and casting properties of the particular batch you have smelted, then you can make the necessary adjustments to your alloy. If you need more hardness, you will probably want to add some antimony or an alloy rich in antimony, such as old wheel weights or linotype. To improve flow and fill out with your casts, tin will improve your likelihood of success.

Froggie

[Rich/WIS]

For most of my pistol bullets I use straight range scrap, casts and shoots just fine. Scrap is a mix of jacketed, commercial lead bullets and a small quantity of cast from other shooters. Tested a few of my ingots years ago and they ran about 10-11 BHN but have never had an X-ray analysis to determine exact composition. Wheel weights (COWW) make excellent bullets as is and have essentially no tin. Suggest you smelt it all down and then try casting some of each type bullet you use. After you do then see if you think you have fill issues, if not you're good to go, and if you do add some tin (1-2%). Rifle bullets are a somewhat different issue, generally need a harder alloy and in addition to Sb for increasing hardness Sn helps fill out on the longer skinnier bullets. Save your Sn for those.

[Dragonheart]

If you have good fill-out without adding tin, then save your tin for those occasions where you really need it.

Ditto.

[kevin c]

As mentioned above, scrap recovered from a berm depends on what was shot into it.

If you are willing to sort the slugs you recover individually, rather than separate rifle from pistol (based on caliber and form, I'm guessing?) it might be more useful to sort jacketed (often a swaged, softer lead alloy without tin that depends on the jacket for final form and to stand up to handling) from cast (where the tin is added for mold fill out and there is more antimony to add hardness for handling and perhaps ballistic reasons). Even then, it's still only a guess as to exact content. Every new batch dug out of the berm, even sorted, can be different.

As Hickory and others comment, you may not need any tin to cast well, especially if you raise the alloy and mold temp a bit.

If you've processed the scrap into batches of ingots, and if you want to be extra consistent, weigh the ingots into your empty pot and cast a few as is. If you don't get good fill out, add the casts and sprues back to the pot so you start with the same weight of scrap and add a small weighed amount of pewter. Repeat until you like what you cast. The total weight of pewter added to the weight of scrap ingots gives you the ratio you need for the rest of the ingots in that batch. You'll have to do this for each batch though, so big batches reduces the labor. And, of course, if you take this approach, you really don't need to sort the scrap at all.

[kmw1954]

Great discussion here as with the thread I have going. XXXXtype alloy? I have learned much this week.

Right now I have a number of small batches rendered down and poured into ingots. Have about 90lbs of COWW, 25lbs. of SOWW, 30lbs. of scrap from flashing and about 35lbs. of ingoted range scrap from an indoor range. Then today I just received another bucket, 65lbs., of this range scrap. Lastly I just purchased 15lbs of print-type.

I have come to call this range scrap as VooDoo Chemistry because it is so unknown and will most likely change with each batch. This that I have was shot into a steel backstop and is all fragmented with a lot of dirt and other unknowns. I started rendering this down tonight and like the last bucket I am getting about 30% garbage and it again appears to be very soft.

For now my plan is to render this scrap down into ingots and then add some of the letter type to increase the hardness and change the density weight. Reason being is I cast some of this scrap alloy into a Lee mold that is listed as 200gr., well with this alloy it was dropping at 210+gr.. Not that the dropped weight actually makes a difference for what I'm doing but it did factor into my decision to not buy a 230gr mold.

So far I am enjoying this little adventure and am learning much as I go.

[Forrest r]

I've been using range scrap from an outdoor range since 1990 to cast bullets with. A couple things I've found over the years.

I never separate anything, 22's/rb's/jacketed/slugs/commercial cast/home cast/etc, all go into the same pot.
I make the biggest batches I can at 1 time, typically doing +/- 100# batches at a time. Doing this tends to make a more consistent alloy batch after batch after batch.
Typically batches come out 8/9bhn air cooled and 12/13bhn water dropped. At least that what every batch I've done since 2001? tested out to be.
I have never need to add any tin to the large batches of alloy. When you do small batches they are all over the place and it's a lot of trial and error figuring it out.
I do add tin when I do a run of 50/50 in a #20 lee casting pot. The 50/50 mix is 50% range scrap and 50% pure lead & I add 6oz of 50/50 bar solder to that mix to make hp's for slow moving large caliber (44/45) bullets.

I've used a lot of outdoor range scrap over the decades to cast bullets with. Used to go thru #300+ a year of cast bullets for the 9mm's/38supers/38spl's/357's/44spl's/44mag's/45acp's 30cal rifles. Never needed to add any tin to the range scrap.

Do yourself a huge favor and make big batches of alloy from your range scrap at 1 time. The alloy will be more consistent from batch to batch and there will be no need to add tin. Typically I end up tossing 1/3 (+/- 33%) of the weight of the range scrap when turning it into ingots. Rocks, dirt, jackets, steel cores, etc but the local scrap yard buys the copper jackets as #2 alloy.

good luck

[Dragonheart]

I have shot primararly range scrap for the last 8 years and cast over 50K bullets last year alone just to use up some of the lead. I don't sort anything, all the scrap goes into the pot . My bottom pour smelting pot will drop over 250 pounds of clean ingots in a single cook. I have checked the hardness a number of times and it is always about 11. I mainly shoot handgun and I powder coat, so 11 is more than I need: I could shoot PC pure lead at handgun velocities. All this worry about alloy is a waste of time for PC handgun or short range rifle shooting as long as you are getting good fill out on your bullets; if not it is probably not the alloy mix anyway. If I am getting good accuracy and function, which I am and no barrel leading, which I am, then what else do I need? My point is life is complicated enough without looking for ways to make it more so.

[GARD72977]

I shoot a lot of scrap range lead. I run it a little hot and usually get good bullets. I add a little tin if needed for a troublesome mold. Don't overcomplicate it.

[bazzer485]

I have shot primararly range scrap for the last 8 years and cast over 50K bullets last year alone just to use up some of the lead. I don't sort anything, all the scrap goes into the pot . My bottom pour smelting pot will drop over 250 pounds of clean ingots in a single cook. I have checked the hardness a number of times and it is always about 11. I mainly shoot handgun and I powder coat, so 11 is more than I need: I could shoot PC pure lead at handgun velocities. All this worry about alloy is a waste of time for PC handgun or short range rifle shooting as long as you are getting good fill out on your bullets; if not it is probably not the alloy mix anyway. If I am getting good accuracy and function, which I am and no barrel leading, which I am, then what else do I need? My point is life is complicated enough without looking for ways to make it more so.

Hi, I want to build a smelter for my range scrap, any chance of a picture of your bottom pour pot?
Thanks
Barry


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