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Thread: Who makes the most powerful.22 cal springer?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Who makes the most powerful.22 cal springer?

    I know the most powerful Springer isn’t the most accurate and I found that out when I bought mine 10 years ago. I remember the rave reviews of the Walther talon 22 mag with the addition of the nitro piston that I had installed as an upgraded option back then because it wasn’t offered as a stock item in any factory rifles. Those times have changed obviously. I don’t plan on buying another one but just curious. My next rifle might be a .30 Hatsan carnivore or more then likely a gig bore PCP. If you’ve seen some of my post at least buy an optic upgrade and adding longer screws to the Trigger and replacing the spring taking the pull from 6 lbs to 20 oz. it’s become user-friendly along with improving accuracy and I finally like my rifle and now shoot it after 10 years of buying it. The problem was 10 years ago and manufactures never offered bicycle looking pumps for PCPs so I ended up looking for the most powerful .22 cal springer and never barely used it because of such a horrible Trigger and dull gray site picture in the package supplied optima scope. How times have changed. I believe my gun was rated at 1150 with lead and 1400 with PBA according the box and inflated marketing numbers at the time. One of these days I’ll have to run it through a chronograph to see how close it is or isn’t to these numbers. I can say after all these years it still shoots through 3/4” treated plywood out to 15 yards. I’ve never tested it farther than that on plywood. From what I can see the Hatsan 135 carnivore 30 cal is the top dog for brake barrels at 30 foot pounds with a 30 cal pellet that drops like a lead ballon. I believe my .22 cal 10 year old rifle generates just as much foot pounds as the carnivore. So from what I’ve seen there haven’t been been many advancements since I bough my gun in the way of the springer/piston guns in the last decade other than facelifts and it all went into upgrading and advancement into the PCP market.

    So the upgraded version of my rifle I believe is the Hatsan 125. I’m sure it’s a different piston now compared to my Crosman nitro piston that was a $89 installed upgrade when I bought it on line at pyramidAir in 1990. I also see the gamo Magnum is a hi velocity brake gun. I would assume these two are pretty close to being a horse apiece with the Hatsan just a hair faster? Once again I’m not gonna buy one I’m just curious who makes the fastest Piston (and most FPE) rifle currently?
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 03-04-2020 at 12:45 PM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

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    Just go with the PCP.

    Can you hear voices?

    It's the darkside calling you.
    To lazy to chase arrows.
    Clodhopper

  3. #3
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    I plan on it as my next purchase but still curious on who makes the most powerful piston gun. The Hatsan sledgehammer is calling my name.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master

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    I can almost agree, a powerful springer should be bigger than 17.

    But my springers, and even the powderburners have been neglected since I fell completely under the spell of the siren's song and got the compressor.
    To lazy to chase arrows.
    Clodhopper

  5. #5
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    georgerkahn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clodhopper View Post
    I can almost agree, a powerful springer should be bigger than 17.

    But my springers, and even the powderburners have been neglected since I fell completely under the spell of the siren's song and got the compressor.
    I, too, have had this affliction. I really tossed and turned when I heard the NoMad compressor was both on sale ($100 off) and then to go up another $100 "in near future" -- which it did... so, I said, "It's only money!" and ordered one. Frankly, to say I have zero regrets would be an understatement! And it even prompted my purchase of another PCP air rifle! Albeit last summer the only non-PCP which got quite a bit of use was a C02 Crosman (due to its rapid fire (a 1088) on soda-can propelled targets for fun at camp) -- my springers just collected dust. And -- a combination of bad weather and a health issue -- enabled not any hunting use with my Gas Piston... YES! Imho, the PCP/compressor is the way -- at least for me -- to go! A link on the compressor I purchased, albeit $200 more than I paid, is at https://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Air_V...ompressor/8695
    BEST!
    geo

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgerkahn View Post
    I, too, have had this affliction. I really tossed and turned when I heard the NoMad compressor was both on sale ($100 off) and then to go up another $100 "in near future" -- which it did... so, I said, "It's only money!" and ordered one. Frankly, to say I have zero regrets would be an understatement! And it even prompted my purchase of another PCP air rifle! Albeit last summer the only non-PCP which got quite a bit of use was a C02 Crosman (due to its rapid fire (a 1088) on soda-can propelled targets for fun at camp) -- my springers just collected dust. And -- a combination of bad weather and a health issue -- enabled not any hunting use with my Gas Piston... YES! Imho, the PCP/compressor is the way -- at least for me -- to go! A link on the compressor I purchased, albeit $200 more than I paid, is at https://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Air_V...ompressor/8695
    BEST!
    geo
    I just got started shooting airguns and purchased my first, a PCP Daystate. After shooting it twice and pumping it twice, I've come to the conclusion that a compressor is in my future. I was thinking about buying a carbon wrapped bottle this week, but the price of the compressor on the link you added makes even buying a bottle kind of a no brainer in getting the compressor. If I'm reading correctly what you're saying, you already have one of these compressors and ordered another one? If so, what's your opinion on these units and would you recommend getting one instead of a bottle? Not much difference in price right now between the two.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    While not really springers, and if you want quality, I'll go with #1 the hw90, #2 the diana 350 gas ram, #3 the asp 20...all are gas rams of good quality and power.

  8. #8
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    My R1/ HW80 used to be the most powerful Springer out there. I think Hatsan has that title.

    When comparing numbers make sure to not just look at velocity as many outfits shoot the lightest pellet they can find and print that number as the power.

    First a Powerful Airgun should be at least .22 cal. A .177 that shoots at 1200 fps with 5 gr pellets is not comparable to a .22 that shoots 25 gr pellets at 600 fps. Definitely compare Apples to Apples.

    Second: How long will the gun keep up it's performance. High quality German and English Airguns will still be shooting at their advertised velocities in a hundred years. My two oldest ones are 42 years old and they still shoot the same H&N Match pellets at the same velocity they did when new. They just operate smoother after a zillion cycles. My HW 77 shoots the .22 cal H&N Match pellets at 626 fps only varying about +/1 over as many shots as you can stand to sit there and cock and shoot it.

    My point here is that you really need to buy quality over supposed performance, as the better gun will be more accurate look better and last longer than a cheaper one that says it shoot faster. These things are just like quality firearms, and should be treated as such!!!.

    Keeping them in the house, in a clean dry area (safe) and using proper lubrication and actually wiping them down with a silicone rag after use will keep them nice forever. My last HW35E was rescued from a gun shop for $60. It has lived in someones closet for many years and was completely packed with dust and dirt. The wood had also been subjected to some pink house paint drippings. Refinishing the stock and removing all the gook from the metal turned a $60 gun into a $400 gun. it only needed some TLC to bring it back from the dead. If I hadn't found it some turd probably would have thrown it in the bed of his pickup truck, and it would have been destroyed.

    Pic#'s 1. resurrected HW35E, 2. with Bug Buster scope installed. 3 first HW35EB 4. Beeman Williams Rear Sight on HW35EB, 5. R1

    Randy
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    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
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  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    As Randy stated, be very careful if advertised velocities, they use ultra lightweight pellets or just lie. I believe that the R1/HW80 or Theoben Eliminator(gas ram) is probably the most powerful spring gun that you would actually want to shoot. Those things are big and heavy, substantial cocking effort to extract another, oh 50fps over a more trim R9. I sold my R1 because I thought it too big and heavy to be practical, at least it had a smooth firing cycle and world class trigger. Can’t say that for some of the other “powerful” springers I encountered. Have never seen or shot a Hatsan, so cant state any opinion there. Thing is, it takes a certain amount of air in the chamber to compress and create power. Want more power, gotta get more air behind the pellet. Assuming all have good port design and balanced piston/“spring” designs, the only thing to do is make the tube bigger dia and or longer. Both make the gun bigger and heavier. Longer stroke creates more time before the pellet clears the bore, ie “lock time” . More spring power is more cocking effort and harsher shot cycle, possibly even having the piston stopped by slamming into the end of the tube with a too light pellet. The piston should be stopped by the highly compressed air behind the pellet, decelerated as the pressure builds easing to a stop as the air drives the pellet. Too light pellet, bad for the piston, too heavy and piston bounces causing accuracy issues. What I’m saying is there are mechanical constraints die to the design that make it really a matter of diminishing returns to try to build the “most powerful” springer. Besides, field target shooters have found that above c900fps with a diablo pellet accuracy goes out the window. If you want lots of power go up to. 25 with a heavy pellet and for more “power” at reasonable velocity. Personally I go to pcp to get 30+ ftlb and a powder burner for lots more in a much more compact package. I would love to have a repro Lewis and Clark gun. 15 years ago a fellow was considering producing just that. I asked to bid on component parts and we communicated a while but I never received a bid pack or saw any thing hit the market. Too bad, would have been a wonderful squirrel rifle.
    “You don’t practice until you get it right. You practice until you can’t get it wrong.” Jason Elam, All-Pro kicker, Denver Broncos

  10. #10
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    I remember the R1 and my Talon being the top dogs a decade ago. I still remember the day the video came out with some guy shooting a hog stone cold dead with a 1650 FPS rated R1 and a .177 PBA pellet. I don’t think much has changed. I have an aluminum plate I made into a gong hanging a little over a 100 yards away in the woods. I made and put up the other day. Boy dose that thing ring with a 18.1 grain jsb pellets. I can see dents in it through my scope. I might pull it tonight and inspect it. I can tell you the 13 grain RS just makes a little “ting” noise VS a big “clang” with the heavy jumbos. The new style JSB heavy jumbos do not group worth a darn in my gun. I’m using the old grey tin and don’t have very many left so it’s going to a sad day very soon for me as they only other pellet thst groups half way descent in my gun is the Old RS pellets. I have a tin of about 450 left of them. I called all the major airgun places I could think of today and all the old stock heavy jumbos were gone.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 03-06-2020 at 09:04 PM.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Power sells, but with springers there is a practical limit due to physics. That’s why no more improvements, gas ram for piston speed without mass and tube size limited only by how big you can stand. PCP gets lots of power but has the trade off of air consumption. Still they are a ball to experiment with. I think I may move a couple powder guns that are redundant and get me a compressor!
    “You don’t practice until you get it right. You practice until you can’t get it wrong.” Jason Elam, All-Pro kicker, Denver Broncos

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    I’m thinking of moving a couple of lee Enfield sporter and project guns to get a PCP.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Just include the electric compressor in the upfront cost, tanks are a hassle and foot pumps are a pain, literally!
    Oh, and be sure is has a moderator, seems you want some power and power equal LOUD. Like louder than a 22!
    “You don’t practice until you get it right. You practice until you can’t get it wrong.” Jason Elam, All-Pro kicker, Denver Broncos

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by rking22 View Post
    Just include the electric compressor in the upfront cost, tanks are a hassle and foot pumps are a pain, literally!
    Oh, and be sure is has a moderator, seems you want some power and power equal LOUD. Like louder than a 22!
    Or get a good quality springer or gas ram and practise with it, you will not be dependent on any bottles or pumps, esp. when out in the field hunting.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Exactly where I have come around to, but I may get a compressor now so I can play with my PCPs. Wasn’t available when I got tired of pumping. I hunt with an R9 and plink with an FWB300s or a thumb safety Blue Streak. But that streak is loud!
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    “You don’t practice until you get it right. You practice until you can’t get it wrong.” Jason Elam, All-Pro kicker, Denver Broncos

  16. #16
    Boolit Grand Master GhostHawk's Avatar
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    Personally I have been very happy with my Hatsan's. I started with the 135 QE Vortex. With Crossman lead hollow point pellets I estimated mine as being in the mid 900's fps range. I paid for the option to have it shot with lead pellets over a chrony. Those were slightly lighter than the CHP's, and were running a solid 975 fps.

    So a bit less than a .22lr standard velocity, lighter pellet. But plenty of energy to take normal critters and smaller varmints.
    I would not even blink at taking a good shot at a bit fox squirrel, or even a jack rabbit. Assuming I could get a good head shot.

    Coyote I feel is pushing it. Possum and coon would be DRT with a decent head shot at reasonable range.

    I figure it has double the power of my Sheridan Blue streak. Cottontails are no sweat for the streak even at half power.

    The way I figure it if I am going to go up to .25 or .30 cal, I might as well use a powder burner and a light load of Red Dot.
    Just as accurate, just about as quiet, and capable of pushing a lot bigger projectile at about the same cost. Big bore pellets are not cheap.

    .223 rem with the 55 gr bator bullet I have loads below 1400 fps, no gas check, 3 cents for primer, 2 cents worth of Red Dot, and a penny for lead.
    They were minute of squirrel head at 100 yards once sights were adjusted.

    .30-30 with the Lee .314 90 gr truncated cone sized to .311 over 4-5 grains of Red Dot is accurate as can be, quiet, and more deadly than any .30 cal airgun ever dreamed of being. And it reloads for about the same cost as the .223. Penny's, 6-7 cents ea. tops.

    The .30 cal air rifle can not load a really effective 150 yard deer killing pellet that would give consistent kills.
    The .30-30 sure can. And I have 2, a single shot handi rifle with scope or Red Dot, and a Win 94 AE.

    Air rifles are cool, and they have their place. I'm just not sure until you get above .35 cal that the place is the same place as a powder burner.

    I absolutely adore the fact that I know as long as I have lead to melt I have a .22 buckshot mold that will feed either of my Hatsan .22 cal rifles.
    And will easily put meat in the pot at reasonable ranges with better accuracy than my pellets. I have not tried to shoot it long range. But in my basement it consistently gives me one ragged hole 5 shot groups a third tighter than the crossman pellets. If the SHTF I'm ready on that front.

    The Hatsan 135 is a BEAST. It is BIG, heavy, and yes you can drive thumbtacks with it. Although the cheap plastic ones shatter and make a mess.
    On a good day, 4 out of 5 is not hard to do. But I can not shoot outdoors without loading everything up and driving out of the city limits. Legally you can't shoot a nerf gun in your own backyard. Which I feel has gone too far. If I am going to load the car and drive it is easier to take a powder burner to the range than to drive out of town and try to find someplace I can shoot safely without annoying someone.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    I adjusted my trigger down last night on the Talon a little lighter (Im guessing I have it down to a pound pull now) which aided in some accuracy. I talked with pyramidAir yesterday on my gun I bought from them a decade ago and was told that they saw numbers get up to 30 FPE when testing the same talon 22 magnums after installing nitro pistons in them back in the day. I tried it out this morning on a back yard pest chewing a plastic hole through my bird feeder. I used an 18.1 grain JSB and it didn’t even flinch with a head on shot facing me. I’ve shoot a lot of vermin with a 22lr rimfire with the same shot placement and never had one stone cold dead like this. Normally they will still flip around. I’ll be pulling out the croc pot this afternoon. Think I’ll have do some more practicing with it and keep it around even when I upgrade to a PCP. I drilled a raccoon at 30 yards years ago with a broadside head shot placement. I used a predator pellet. The pellet landed between the eye and the ear with the same stone cold dead results. If I was talented enough to hit a coyote with a perfect brain shot Im guessing it would drop it out to 25 yards or a little further. I save those for my shotguns and centerfires. After I’ve been shooting through 3/4” plywood at 15 yards pretty consistently with it I sure would think it would have enough power on just about anything at a close range brain shot. I would think it’s got to be similar to a 22lr at very close range. It’s just the shot placement that’s going to be the main issue imo with a piston gun.

    I’ve taken quite a bit of squirrels and rabbits out of the garden with my browning express 800 22 cal springer pistol out to 20 yards with head shots and dropped them were they stand with a lot less velocity. I get pass throughs with rocket pellets on them as well. My guess is it’s only pushing my pellets around 500 FPS or so.

    When I bought mine the only way it was offered was in a black plastic stock. Id sure like to upgrade it to a 135 wood stock some day. At least I won’t cry if I scratch the black plastic. Sounds like at the time they switched over to poly stocks because the wood ones kept cracking from vibrations and recoil.

    I just cleaned it and recovered my (pellets) both under the hide. I thought I missed the first shot as it was pretty windy today..couldn’t have been me,lol. The unexpanded one entered the skin by its neck, never penetrated any meat, and ended up under the hide by its tail when I skinned it. The second one that expanded went through just Above the nasal cavity and broke the shoulder on the way out. I was sticking to the underside of the hide by the shoulder. I always wondered how a Diabolo would or wouldn’t expand. Figured I would have had pass throughs but tree rats are tough. Kinda need to see the rifling on the pellet that didn’t expand and also on the one that did. It blew the shoulder bone to pieces.

    Who ever has had their doubts (including me) that a Diabolo type pellet dose not expand can see first hand what it did here when it hit bone. I used the old grey labeled can that apparently has a harder alloy mix as well.





    The vermin is currently soaking in a little salt water then into my crock.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 03-07-2020 at 01:36 PM.

  18. #18
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    3B: Actually it would be "the Varmint is soaking", as opposed to "Vermin" which is plural. Good shot, hope it cooks up nicely.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
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  19. #19
    Boolit Master Tripplebeards's Avatar
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    Lol, thanks for the spelling lesson. I also found out if I don’t get a head or neck shot with the JSB heavy jumbo pellets they are not forgiving. I shouldered one yesterday. It locked up stiff as a board. A few seconds later it got up and it made to the local knot hole! I’m hoping the hades I ordered will be accurate enough and more forgiving when my aim is a little off to at least put them down quicker. That’s actually number two that made it to the tree knot hole. I had the one that flopped around like a fish out of water like I brained it (aiming for the head) then got up 10 seconds later making it to the knot hole. I never had that problem with predator pellets. They would put them down where they stood even with my browning express 800 22 cal pistol. It’s just the predator pellets don’t group nearly as well. The terminators group around an inch at 23 yards. I might have to try some at closer range on varmints to see how they do. They shoot the best in my pistol but the rifle not as good.
    Last edited by Tripplebeards; 03-10-2020 at 08:50 AM. Reason: Spelling

  20. #20
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    My favorite Uncle taught me how to shoot Ground Squirrels when I was 8 or 9 years old. He made it clear that unless you hit them square in the head, they would find a way to get back down the hole. This was shooting his Mossberg Target rifle which I had to lay on a rest cuz I couldn't hold it up.

    Everything that I have shot with my pellet guns was DRT! Except one crow which was in a Juniper Tree in my front yard. I shot strait up from directly under it at less than 10 feet right in between the Jaw Hinge and the pellet from my HW77 .22 went right strait up thru its head and it dropped at my feet DRT! I picked it up by the wing tip and marched it over to the Trash Can and disposed of it. This was Saturday Morning.

    Monday Evening my wife took a bag of trash out to the can and when she opened up the lid the Crow stood up and squawked at her, and she started screaming Bloody Murder. I was summoned to deal with the threat, and I had to bludgeon the thing to death with an Axe Handle while it squawked at me... Who'd a thunk it would survive a head shot like that where you could see daylight right thru the hole?

    To this day she is very cautious when opening Trash Cans. You never know what evil lurks within?

    We got a new Gopher in the front yard today so I will go out tonight and see if I can whack the thing. If I can't shoot it she'll trap it by tomorrow. She is the resident Gopher Slayer!

    Randy
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BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check