Here is an example of a riveted strap stud setup the strap can pivot on the rivet but it's a snug fit . The patterns for holster and pouch's came from Tandy many years ago and we're changed enough to fit a Ruger old army.
The stud attachment in the plan is mounted to a leather disc and that is sewed to the outside of the holster so the gun is protected from the back of the stud .
Quality snaps rarely fail, and if they wear out can usually be replaced. And if you buy real DOT fasteners they can be had in 3 retention strengths, regular, moderate and hard to un-snap, whichever is your preference. I have used all 3, but mostly I go with moderate.
Scattershot...I'm not a fan of muzzle poking out. This is the sort of thing that I would have returned a holster for. Also, I do not like holsters lacking a trigger guard. I keep my finger off the trigger until on target and holsters of this design invariably encourage the bad habit of touching the trigger when it is still in the holster. This characteristic also DQs the holster from most competitions, though I think it would be allowed in Cowboy Action. The clubs around me would not allow it for pin matches. And the use of an inside thumb-break (Bianchi style) in a cross draw is not optimal since you need to basically reach all the way around and then push it into your lovehandles or belly. If you are a skinny guy it's not a problem, but it IS a problem if you are like the typical American. The outside thumb-break double hammer safety strap works in a cross draw situation better IMO. I learned this the hard way of course. I am not overweight and a cross draw holster I was commissioned to make for my father-in-law's model 28 worked just fine on me, but on him he had to jam his thumb into his flesh pretty hard to get it to work. If I had made it with a double hammer safety strap it would have worked better.
The Bianchi style does have the advantage of leaving your thumb on the correct side of the grip after you draw without needing to be re-positioned, however.
Onelight... I have used that pattern from Tandy and it solves the leather wearing out problem. It would be nice to have left more of a tab on the leather though. There is very little room for pinch-purchase. The flap design I used which I took from the interesting design shared here by Castaway has a "turkey leg" shape. This is a smart idea because it allows the leather to fold more easily and since it is made of the same thick and stuff leather that the rest of the holster is made of it "pops" off the stud pretty easily. If you leave some meat on the end of it and bring the stitched end of the holster in tight there is plenty of overhang. It is by far the easiest and fastest stud type retention I've found so far. If you make another flap holster try the turkey leg. I was sort of blow away by how well it worked. The previous flap desings I've done have been based off that Tandy design (a half circle or rounded triangle shape). What thread do you use BTW? I can tell you are not using cord.
Last edited by curioushooter; 04-01-2020 at 01:47 PM.
That revolver was just for illustration, and was bought for my Blackhawk.
"Experience is a series of non-fatal mistakes"
Disarming is a mistake free people only get to make once...
Scattershot...that looks better. Did you know there were designs for the Colt SAA that left the muzzle exposed on the outside and covered it on the inside (against the body). Apparently some people approve of the poking out look. My main problem with it is the front sight getting hung up. This isn't a problem for S&Ws with the ramped sight, but for something with a partridge type or half-circle type it can be a problem.
How the double hammer safety strap works.
I like these because they fold around the back of the hammer and not over the spur (like a Bianchi type). This makes them work with any hammer spur type...and issue with many S&Ws.They can also be operated with the thumb OR with the forefinger. In fact, I think they may work better with the forefinger so that you can use the thumb to wrap around the grip and the forefinger can continue its sweep to rest beneath the cylinder.
Last edited by curioushooter; 04-01-2020 at 02:14 PM.
I use a waxed heavy thread I bought a big roll years ago from either Dixie gun works or Tandy that roll in my case will be a lifetime supplyOriginally Posted by curioushooter
I don't hunt much any more and have not shot my black powder guns in years .
So most of the holsters I make now I use for concealed carry guns . I also prefer the trigger covered on most holsters, an exception for me are thumb break that have the strap over the hammer.
Original Cavalry design for either Colt or Smith
That is an interesting design.
How the double hammer safety strap works.
I like these because they fold around the back of the hammer and not over the spur (like a Bianchi type). This makes them work with any hammer spur type...and issue with many S&Ws.They can also be operated with the thumb OR with the forefinger. In fact, I think they may work better with the forefinger so that you can use the thumb to wrap around the grip and the forefinger can continue its sweep to rest beneath the cylinder.
When you draw does the snap drag out under the hammer spur or do you manually move it out before drawing ?
Castaway thanks for posting that pattern that will be nice to have.
The innner strap that goes over the hammer is narrow and tapered. It drags out of the way and cannot jam between the frame and the hammer. This is an important consideration. It cannot be too wide. I would have preferred to us line 24 snaps instead of the larger size that I did but Tandy is closed due to Corona.
The double hammer safety strap idea came from Al Stohlman...he probably found it somewhere himself, but remained silent on the point. He called for 6 oz leather to be used. Either 6 oz leather was a lot tougher back then or that was a missprint, because I found no less than 9oz leather to be thick enough and tough enough to the do the job. The leather cannot be too stretchy. It needs to be tough enough to snap off. Another option may be double layering and stitching together two pieces of thinner leather or putting a metal or nylon stiffener between the layers.
Thanks for the pattern cast away. The turkey leg is apparent!
I've used that pattern with minor modifications for long barreled cross-draw holsters. I carry my BlackHawk or Old Army, have another for an 1860 Colt Army. Have a buddy that has a habit of chasing dogs that are chasing hogs that prefers it as well. Let’s you sit down without digging the barrel in the sand; and, as you get older, easier to pull from across body than a strong side draw of a 7.5” barrel.
Whoops,
I I find cross draw much more comfortable for long barrels and if they ride high enough you can leave a button or undone on a coat to reach through to draw when out in bad weather.I've used that pattern with minor modifications for long barreled cross-draw holsters. I carry my BlackHawk or Old Army, have another for an 1860 Colt Army. Have a buddy that has a habit of chasing dogs that are chasing hogs that prefers it as well. Let’s you sit down without digging the barrel in the sand; and, as you get older, easier to pull from across body than a strong side draw of a 7.5” barrel.
I may shrink that pattern you posted down and make one of those for my Ruger bearcat.
In my opinion the best holster to put onto your belt is the Tom Threepersons style which El Paso Saddlery makes. Used to be made by others too, was a favorite of Elmer Keith (I like the snap-down safety strap option better than the leather thong over the hammer). Mernickle's PS6 is comfortable too. Simply Rugged I believe makes a version of the Threepersons holster but I haven't seen one in person; I agree that for a person who does not have fat around the waist their pancake holster is not the most comfortable.
I have a Roy Baker pancake from the mid to late 70s for my 6 1/2" mod.29 so I have personally tested it at weights from 140lbs
Onelight, what is your your waist measurement at 140 lbs? When I did my PT for Army ROTC years ago I was a scant 145. Now I am 185. I have never found any pancake holster comfortable. They are simply too wide compared to my body's radius at 3 o'clock. I had one for a Model 28 (a Galco Combat Master) that actually pulled a belt loop off it put so much outward pressure. A model 28 is the same outside dimension as a 29 except for the barrel contour.
Also, you are right on the money with the observation of longer barreled guns needing a cross draw type holster. It's just a fact that there is a limited amount of space between the armpit and waist. The practical limit for non-gigantic guys for a strong side upwards draw (front break strong sides solve this problem largely...it's the reason they were invented) is around 5-6.5" inches. I can just get my 6.5" Model 624 to manage it when I use a drop loop holster. Those long barreled single actions...forget about it.
That position for your cross draw flap is very similar to the Doc Holliday's position. I was thinking of a clever thing that could be done: The loop for that cross draw could have a D-ring stiched on it or a hole put through it for a stud to use with a sam browne type cross-chest strap. This would make it a lot like the doc holiday but a lot cheaper and easier since it would require a fraction of the leather and hardware. With heavy revolvers like that Ruger Old Army this would make it a lot more comfortable and retain all its good features.
Here's a picture to help you understand.Notice how high his pants ride. I guess having ample drop on the holster made sense with those pants.
I think the Tom Threepersons style hoslter from El Paso made more sense than a lot of designs back then, and that is why it was preferred by those in the know. Today it really offers no advantage to the holster I made with a double hammer safety strap. A simple hammer strap as it features is slower to draw, requiring two separate movements...one to remove the strap and one to grasp the grip of the firearm. As I pointed out before it does not cover the trigger. This would DQ it from most competitions and encourage bad habits. It offers no rear sight protection. And since I can't see the backside I do not know how the belt loop is attached. There is no stronger way to attach a loop than to use a single piece of leather folded over. This costs more because it uses a larger, more odd-shaped piece of leather, so it is avoided these days.
My Levi 501s at that time were 28 / 36 I think they shrunk 1" in the waist after washing , joke about me now buying 36/28 jeans but I buy 2" over because I carry iwb often .
The Roy baker holster I have always carried cross draw with the bottom slots it rides about as high as a shoulder holster. If you have not handled one of these holsters they are made of pretty soft thick leather even when new the holster will lay flat when empty , no break in, so they fold around a skinny guy easily and the curve at the waist stiffens the holster so it does not flop even when carried high . I think the flexibility is key to comfort with the widely spaced belt slots . For me it is the most comfortable and functional holster for a 6 1/2 N frame.
I oil my copies until they soften a bit but are still not as flexible as my Roybaker
Here are a couple of pics of it . Not very pretty but it is like on old friend .
I carried it the most using the center 2 slots at about 10 to 11:00 on my belt usually under a long waisted coat to keep it out of the weather.
Last edited by onelight; 04-03-2020 at 02:36 PM.
You’re correct it can be used for a shoulder holster. I made one of the flap cross-draws for a friend and he wanted another holster for another pistol because it fit a shoulder rig he has
Another of my creations. Note retention system. More secure than a thong and allows for safe carrying of six if so inclined
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