ADvertise hereTitan ReloadingMidSouth Shooters SupplyInline Fabrication
RotoMetals2RepackboxWidenersLee Precision

Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: X-TRA Range?

  1. #1
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Blackwater, Virginia
    Posts
    89

    X-TRA Range?

    For Deer Sized Critters out to 200-300 yds. 30 or 35 cal.? Bullet Weight, Design & Why? Thanks! Jim

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Quilcene, Washington
    Posts
    3,025
    We need a little more information than you are giving. Are you shooting CB's or jacketed? What velocities? How much meat loss are you willing to accept? "Deer size" is a pretty big concept and can, in my area, be from 80# to almost 300# for a mature buck living in habitats only a few miles apart. For instance - A 30/30 lobbing a 170 gr. CB with a moderate me plat (such as a Lyman 311041) with a terminal velocity of 1300 fps will do just fine on a 140# live weight deer and probably leave a lot more edible meat that the mega magnum 30 using the same size JSP going 2700 fps terminal velocity but either way, the deer is on the ground.

  3. #3
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Blackwater, Virginia
    Posts
    89
    O.K & Thanks for your response. CB's, I say 30 or 35 cal. vs 375-45 cal trying to flatten trajectory. I realize BHN & Twist are a factor & de-temping the nose of a bullet assists in expansion. Have had great success with cast out to about 150 yds. with a 358 Win. which I feel is my limit for now. Realizing the amount of been there & done that on this forum I thought I would ask for some input before I start my summer project of increasing my range capabilities. I am blessed with several rifles to work with in both 30 & 35 cal, twist rates for stability, throat depth's for heavier bullets, & I would not rule out a 375 cal project. Understanding bullet placement is key. I strive for boolit placement 1st. & not under powered with tiny boolits. Thanks Jim

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
    Dinny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Gloucester, VA
    Posts
    116
    For ranges 200-300 yards you're probably better off with a 30cal rifle, 308 Win or 30-06. I also shoot a 358 Win and realize I need a PhD in external ballistics if I expect to make good shoots beyond 200 yds. 225gr jacketed bullets drop about 11" from 200 to 300 yds with a 100 yd zero and 2700fps muzzle velocity. You may do a bit better than that with more speed from the 35 Whelen, but it won't be nearly as flat as the 30-06.

    Thanks, Dinny
    I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children can live in peace.

    Thomas Paine

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    'Bout a hundred miles from the Gulf of Mexico
    Posts
    701
    Ok, not underpowered and definitely not tiny boolits!! 200 grain Lee RNFP,
    Sized to .310”, powder coated, gas checked, seated to the crimp groove, 50+ grains of H4831, cci 200 primer, this shot well out of a stock Remington 700 in 30/06! At the powder load I used the fps was 2499. Recoil is stiff, but it should hammer anything in its path!! Good luck to you!! Please keep us updated.
    I firmly believe that you should only get treated by how you act, not by who or what you are!!

  6. #6
    Boolit Master RU shooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    SW Pa.
    Posts
    2,358
    At that range whatever you can hit the best with (most accurate) and still have enough velocity with whatever load your using to make an ethical kill
    If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Lake Havasu City, Arizona
    Posts
    17,893
    Apparently you understand velocity along with proper bullet (alloy) for some expansion that accuracy will be the key to success. Additionally any shots taken past 200 yards that will be essential because, as mentioned, bullet drop will be a serious consideration. Thus, using a range finder or knowing the range for such shots along with a reliable scope with positive adjustable elevation.

    As higher velocity is required to attain at least 1300 - 1400 fps at 300 yards then you understand the adverse effect on accuracy at longer ranges increased RPM can have. I also would suggest testing for accuracy at 300 yards to confirm a loads usefulness. Because a load, especially at higher velocity/RPM is accurate enough for deer at 100 yards does not mean it will be at 300 yards.

    What bullet to use will be dependent on the twist rate. I've loads for the 30 XCB bullet or the C312-185 for use in a 10" twist that make it a 250 yards deer rifle. In 12" twists the 30 XCB and the C312-185 will do at 300 yards. However, a 13 or 14" twist will be the best, especially if the barrel is 26" or longer. My 27.5 barreled .308W 14' twist Palma rifle will do very well with the 311041, the 30 XCB and the C312-185 bullets accuracy wise at 300 yards and they retain 1600 to 1800+ fps at 300 yards.

    Again, just for emphasis, if the max range you might shoot a deer is 300 yards then it is the accuracy and retained velocity at that range that determines the suitability of any load....not performance at 50 or 100 yards.
    Last edited by Larry Gibson; 03-05-2020 at 10:59 AM.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  8. #8
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Blackwater, Virginia
    Posts
    89
    Thanks for the input, I really appreciate your hands on experience! Jim

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Dyer, Tn
    Posts
    1,140
    I have used nothing but a .358 Win as my all around rifle for years. I have used the 200 Lee fngc and it did well at 2200 fps which is 35 rem country. I have never pushed it past that. For all around use on deer, my load is 200gr gummie bullets Hornaday bullets. With TAC per Hornaday, I get 2700fps, 2.5" high at 100 is 8'' low at 300 yards. PBR is 257 yards-- zero is 219. vel at 300 yds is 1900 with a 6" kill zone. Horn says the flex tip bullets expand down to 1800...This is for fields. I have a 1776-1976 year M-77 30.06. But I only use it occasionally. Its load is an SST 150 gr at 3090. Still prefer my .358 win. )
    I would like a BLR .358 win and then to just see what a good cast could do for say 300 yards-- but that is et for the future. Wish Henry would make a long ranger in .358 win

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    924
    I believe the O.P. was inquiring about cast boolits , nothing wearing jackets

  11. #11
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer

    waksupi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Somers, Montana, a quaint little drinking village,with a severe hunting and fishing problem.
    Posts
    17,725
    My .358Win has a point blank range of 225 yards. Accuracy will certainly be there at longer range. However, I limit myself to 200 yard shots, and only shoot further when out playing. Regardless of projectile or caliber, I will not shoot at game over 200 yards. I'm a hunter, not a lobber. I have shot the 290 gr. Bator Heavy to 350 yards with accuracy, although needing some holdover.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  12. #12
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Longview, Washington
    Posts
    719
    Wise words above about longer ranges , I am working with a guy who is always bragging on these long range shots and what he fails to always say his how many shots he shoots and how he does not always go look for blood sign or dead animals , and when you listen to his b.s. you can see how little he knows , unethical and a road hunting shooting above his ability with little to no care other then to make his brag

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy Bantou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    167
    Quote Originally Posted by FLINTNFIRE View Post
    Wise words above about longer ranges , I am working with a guy who is always bragging on these long range shots and what he fails to always say his how many shots he shoots and how he does not always go look for blood sign or dead animals , and when you listen to his b.s. you can see how little he knows , unethical and a road hunting shooting above his ability with little to no care other then to make his brag
    As a hunter, guys like that piss me off. You should respect the animals you are trying to harvest, not treat them like a piece of paper to punch holes in. I have seen videos of guys making 700+ yard shots at deer and I cringe every time. That is entirely too much time IMHO for something to go wrong between squeezing the trigger and the round making contact.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Happiness is a warm .45

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Longview, Washington
    Posts
    719
    You hit it on the head he showed me a video once of some people hawking their adjustable turret scope making all these shots and I said yeah wind heat pressure time animals movement etc poor ethics wounded animals unsportsman like stupidity , but on he goes and his family , as a worker he is lazy , uncaring about anything but his check and how he can get by with little effort so you know it carries over to his shooting and checking , other guys who know him from where they live tell stories about his hunting and lack of looking for animals , and yes there is a major difference between punching paper shooting rocks and living animals . To the original post of range knowing your rifle your load and your ability and limiting yourself to that is of the utmost importance , I still hunt more for the time with family then any other reason , time to camp , and be away from people with people who I things in common . sorry for any hijack of thread .

  15. #15
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Blackwater, Virginia
    Posts
    89
    FLINTFIRE; No hijack here, In my earlier post I stated that I felt 150 yds was my max for now only because of lack of practice with these cast loads past this range. I feel pretty much the same as the rest of you. I will admit I have taken a some deer beyond that range with rounds more designed for the job. Been hunting in an area that has been really productive & all shorter range shots. I've just this year decided to move around a little more and the new areas present some longer ranges. Thanks for all input Jim

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    2,883
    If I were to want to take a 300 yard shot, of what I have now, my best tool would be a 308 Winchester rifle with 180 grain bullet. I've got the accuracy, not quite the speed, but I haven't tried to push it either. It would certainly do the job.

    I would always go 30 caliber, I was never a big 35 caliber fan like some. The mold choices in 30 caliber are monstrous. Something heaver 175 gr+, maybe even as heavy as 220-230. Heavy 30 caliber bullets should have a better BC. Drop is easily compensated, wind not so much. I might consider a hollow point bullet too.

    Maybe it's just me, but 300 yards doesn't seem that far for a rifle. Calling it "lobbing shots" is just silly. Sight in at 200, you will be point blank to 225. If you can see an animal at 300 yards, you have plenty of time to range it, and compensate for the drop.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check