Sawdust question?

[FLINTNFIRE]

I find that with range scrap and all the dirt clay etc that I throw whatever wood scrap and sawdust in with old motor oil and let it burn , I have found that when melting hundreds of pounds of it that it works better that way , also I find that with the oil used the lead flows easier not as much tension to it , in my electric casting pots it is lubed bullets , wax , beeswax , and some cat litter on top , just my way of doing it and we all have our own unique or slightly different methods that work for ourselves .

[Bantou]

For me wax only. Why do you flux to begin with? The only reason is to clean the alloy; heat is what causes the metals to dissolve into a solution, not the flux. So why add things to the alloy that can cause inclusions in the castings?

I use saw dust and wax when smelting down wheel weights because I have found that it does a better job cleaning up the alloy than wax alone. I use a ladle to cast so all I put in my casting pot is wax. A lot of the guys with bottom pour pots put sawdust on top of their mix because it helps prevent oxidation.


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[Dragonheart]

I use saw dust and wax when smelting down wheel weights because I have found that it does a better job cleaning up the alloy than wax alone. I use a ladle to cast so all I put in my casting pot is wax. A lot of the guys with bottom pour pots put sawdust on top of their mix because it helps prevent oxidation.


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On a bottom pour sprinkling boric acid on top of the alloy is a better solution. It forms a "glass" layer that will keep down the oxidation at much higher than casting temps (1100+). A salt shaker works well for this.

[Dragonheart]

I find that with range scrap and all the dirt clay etc that I throw whatever wood scrap and sawdust in with old motor oil and let it burn , I have found that when melting hundreds of pounds of it that it works better that way , also I find that with the oil used the lead flows easier not as much tension to it , in my electric casting pots it is lubed bullets , wax , beeswax , and some cat litter on top , just my way of doing it and we all have our own unique or slightly different methods that work for ourselves .

When melting range scrap there is not much you could add to the pot that would be worse than what is already in it. I live in dread of the day someone throws a live round into the trap that ends up in the pot. I stay well away until the pot is hot enough that that danger is over.

[Bantou]

On a bottom pour sprinkling boric acid on top of the alloy is a better solution. It forms a "glass" layer that will keep down the oxidation at much higher than casting temps (1100+). A salt shaker works well for this.

I’ll keep that in mind if I ever get a bottom pour. Right now I’m happy with my ladle. I feel like it gives my more control over the pour and with my little two cavity molds, I don’t need to pour large volumes at a time.


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[Tazlaw]

When melting range scrap there is not much you could add to the pot that would be worse than what is already in it. I live in dread of the day someone throws a live round into the trap that ends up in the pot. I stay well away until the pot is hot enough that that danger is over.

I have found many live rounds while collecting brass but never while mining range scrap lead. However, this is something everyone should be leery of. Of course if I did manage to get a live round in a pot it would be in the large smelting pot where I put all the range scrap. Hopefully that would allow for the least damage. Still not something I would want to experience.

[kevin c]

On a bottom pour sprinkling boric acid on top of the alloy is a better solution. It forms a "glass" layer that will keep down the oxidation at much higher than casting temps (1100+). A salt shaker works well for this.

I've no personal experience, but I've read that the glass is sometime hard to get off any metal that is in contact with the melt. How do you prevent that?

[fredj338]

So then could plastic or Vaseline also be used for flux? Both are petroleum products and relatively cheap.


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Cost is just not an issue, but I would NOT use any plastic, huge mess. I would think Vaseline would work. Old candles are free, so is sawdust so I don't see buying anything for flux. I flux when making ingots from scrap. When casting, only clean alloy goes in the pot & I stir with a wooden stick every time I add alloy. Seems to work just fine & less hassle.

[Bantou]

Cost is just not an issue, but I would NOT use any plastic, huge mess. I would think Vaseline would work. Old candles are free, so is sawdust so I don't see buying anything for flux. I flux when making ingots from scrap. When casting, only clean alloy goes in the pot & I stir with a wooden stick every time I add alloy. Seems to work just fine & less hassle.

It was more of a theory question than something I would put into practice. I have a system of sawdust and wax that works well for me when rendering wheel weights into ingots.

Regards,
B


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[FLINTNFIRE]

I sort it pretty good on my screens as for a live round , as for whats in it dirt and garbage I burn it for awhile and scoop a lot of trash out , have used a lot of different stuff over time , bacon grease about anything with oil or fat and wood trash , two birds with one stone clean up lead and get rid of debris.

[lightman]

I've gotten live primers in my melt before. They make a little pop, kick up a little molten lead and throughly get your attention! If you scrounge lead long enough you are eventually going to get some from an older caster. And if they kept their lead under their loading bench and drop a primer........... I think thats where my primer came from. The same thing could happen with a loaded round.

A couple of years ago I carried a Lyman 450 into the parts store looking for an "O" ring. The parts man recognized it for what it was and come to find out, he was a caster and an old Bullseye shooter. And he offered me a bucket of lead whenever he could dig it out. Well one day I come home to find a bucket sitting in the shop door. Come to find out that he stored it under his loading bench. I sorted the weights and the only thing that I can figure is that the primer must have been caught behind a wheel weight clip.

[mjwcaster]

Unless it is beeswax, waxes are a petro product.

Not necessarily, plant based oils are made into waxes.

There are soy bean oil based waxes, I used to make soy candles.
They are much nicer candles, less black smoke than petroleum based candles, but have issues with low melting point and container only.


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[curioushooter]

I've found that planer shavings (large particles) seem to work marginally better. I have found that southern yellow pine makes the best shavings for fluxing.

Two caveats though:

1) if you are sweeping these off some filthy shop floor you are probably making the alloy dirtier than cleaner...use sawdust/shavings that originate off the tool or collect in a bag or dust collection system as these are much cleaner. This is why planer shavings are better. They are cleaner to begin with as they were cut only by steel knives and collect in a bag.

2) NEVER use sawdust that has resulted from sanding operations or anything where abrasives were involved. These abrasives persist. You do not want these near your molds, pots, or anything else. Obviously, if such sawdust is mixed with good stuff, you better throw it away.

Also, for all the touting of sawdust as a fluxing agent you must keep in mind it is a very weak one. It takes a lot of sawdust to get the job done and it will leave a considerable amount of ash floating on the surface (which is a good thing actually if you use a bottom pour). A teaspoon of tallow will do more to flux a pot than a whole handful of sawdust. If I have dirty metal I use tallow then sawdust, but usually I just use sawdust

One bad thing about sawdust is that over time ash crud will collect on the inside of the pot and need to be cleaned out. Wear a gas mask when you do this and change your clothes afterwards.

[la5676]

Leftover bits of lube in the smelting pot, and fine sawdust in the casting pot. The beauty of leaving the charred sawdust on top of the molten lead in the casting pot is, it helps prevent oxidation of the tin in your alloy.

Don

Smelting pot gets sawdust, whatever is on the floor, big, small, never seen a difference.

Bottom pour furnace? 100% beeswax, nothing else ever.

It seems each caster has their own thang. That said, I had once used some of the commercial fluxing material, and thought it was doing the job. I used the last of this stuff called Buck Beaver flux a year or so back. Soooo, due to this forced self quarantining, I started getting my '21 and maybe '22 casting done if this goes any longer. I'm back to using some of my beeswax (I raise bees too) and sawdust. Using previously fluxed ingots when the orginal smelt took place, the Buck Beaver would always drag off an additional unusual amount of fluxed material. Now, with the wax or sawdust, I have very little. After a couple hundred pounds I had maybe 4# of heavies mixed in with the burnt wood dust, etc. I think that Buck Beaver flux was taking a lot of the goodie out of my alloy. Don't think I'll be buying any more of that stuff anytime soon.

[fcvan]

Ground walnut hulls, always seem to have plenty of that on hand. Makes a good carbon layer on top of the melt and spoons out quite well.

[Dimner]

I've found that planer shavings (large particles) seem to work marginally better. I have found that southern yellow pine makes the best shavings for fluxing.

Two caveats though:

1) if you are sweeping these off some filthy shop floor you are probably making the alloy dirtier than cleaner...use sawdust/shavings that originate off the tool or collect in a bag or dust collection system as these are much cleaner. This is why planer shavings are better. They are cleaner to begin with as they were cut only by steel knives and collect in a bag.

2) NEVER use sawdust that has resulted from sanding operations or anything where abrasives were involved. These abrasives persist. You do not want these near your molds, pots, or anything else. Obviously, if such sawdust is mixed with good stuff, you better throw it away.

Also, for all the touting of sawdust as a fluxing agent you must keep in mind it is a very weak one. It takes a lot of sawdust to get the job done and it will leave a considerable amount of ash floating on the surface (which is a good thing actually if you use a bottom pour). A teaspoon of tallow will do more to flux a pot than a whole handful of sawdust. If I have dirty metal I use tallow then sawdust, but usually I just use sawdust

One bad thing about sawdust is that over time ash crud will collect on the inside of the pot and need to be cleaned out. Wear a gas mask when you do this and change your clothes afterwards.

I use jointer shavings. Straight into a bag for fluxing.

[Dragonheart]

Realize all those combustible things placed in the casting pot do burn and send off fumes. Lead doesn't vaporize at casting temperatures, but it just as well have because those fumes have molecules of Lead that have hitched a ride and are now airborne contaminating everything they touch with deposits of Lead. Now the Lead dust can be transferred to hands clothing shoes and moved to clean areas and if not properly vented into your body.

[dondiego]

Realize all those combustible things placed in the casting pot do burn and send off fumes. Lead doesn't vaporize at casting temperatures, but it just as well have because those fumes have molecules of Lead that have hitched a ride and are now airborne contaminating everything they touch with deposits of Lead. Now the Lead dust can be transferred to hands clothing shoes and moved to clean areas and if not properly vented into your body.

This is not necessarily a true statement. It depends on the temperatures being used.

[USSR]

Realize all those combustible things placed in the casting pot do burn and send off fumes. Lead doesn't vaporize at casting temperatures, but it just as well have because those fumes have molecules of Lead that have hitched a ride and are now airborne contaminating everything they touch with deposits of Lead. Now the Lead dust can be transferred to hands clothing shoes and moved to clean areas and if not properly vented into your body.

If this is true, it sure isn't a very good transmitter (unlike the corona virus). Been doing it for years with very low lead levels.

Don

[Huskerguy]

I am not super experienced but I have learned a few things. When melting wheel weights I have used pine saw dust collected from my own saws and find it works OK but not any better than wax for ME. With range lead, it has seemingly everything under the sun in it. Paper from targets, some nearly whole cast bullets, pieces of belting used to stop bullets and more. What I found is the range lead required much less fluxing which I believe is due to all the onboard fluxing products. I just toss a small piece of candle a couple of times in a mix and things clean up nicely.