It can't be done with a conventional mold...true?

[AbitNutz]

So I searched the forums and wrote a few emails and I'm finding out that it seems you can't cast a Brenneke style slug. It must be true because I sure can't find anyone who sells such a mold.

I have a Browning Auto-5 Magnum with a Hastings rifled barrel and it shoots Brenneke slugs like guided missiles. Unfortunately they cost about the same as a guided missile. You'd think they were made by Raytheon.

Is no one making, if not a conventional mold for these things, how about an unconventional one? A three piece mold maybe?

I know that they can be swaged but at a glance it looks like I'd need a budget akin to NASA to make this slug. That's out...I'm still having dry heaves over last weeks stock market ride...which has yet to end.

[6pt-sika]

You answered your own question far less trouble and less COSTLY to factory loaded then trying to get a mold etc .

[6pt-sika]

If you really wanna cast for it go to Accurate Molds and get the correct size slug mold for about $100 and then have at it . Yes

[6pt-sika]

I also have a pair of Belgian made Browning A-5 12 Mags with a Browning Belgian smoothbore slug barrel on one and a Hastings rifled barrel on the other . I shoot WIN 3” Foster slugs in the smoothbore with very gratifying results at 50 yards and use Federal 3” Barnes Expander sabot slugs in the Hastings barrel . I am sure the rifled gun would do very well at 100 yards if it were scoped , but shooting paper at 100 yards with the sights on that Hastings barrel does not lend itself to tiny groups .

[megasupermagnum]

Nobody has ever done it yet. I hate to say it can't be done, but you can't just go out and buy one. Lots of attempts to simulate the Brenneke have been done over the years, none were ever as good, although some came close. It's a swaged slug, and likely the only real way to make them is with swaging equipment. There is also the problem of attaching the wadding in a perfect manner.

I have a lot of ideas, most well beyond what I have time, money, or skill for. One of them is a Brenneke slug. As most know, the idea of the rifling is to allow room for the slug to swage through a choke. My idea is to do the same thing, but simply make the "rifling" around the circumference. Now ignore the hollow base, that's just there to show it is a hollow base. I drew this based on measurements from a Brenneke slug.




Now that said, the Brenneke slug is a phenomenal slug for both smooth and rifled barrel guns. It's not the only option for a rifled gun. One of the reasons I kind of quit messing with other designs, is when I realized just how well a plain round ball can shoot! You can do better, but I'm able to get 1 1/2"-2" groups at 50 yards in a rifled gun with a .733" round ball. There is a lot of options out there for rifled guns.

[longbow]

Actually it can be done. I have made a mould that casts slugs with in line ribs. It is made similar to a swaging die and the slug is pushed out axially. Also, Captain Morgan has made a very nice Brenneke clone that is cast but again it is not a conventional split mould.

The only pics I have handy of a couple versions of my ribbed slugs recovered from the 100 yard berm:



On the left is a hollow base ribbed slug

On the right is a solid finned slug. My moulds are made with conventional lathe and mill and are 3 piece push out design.

A thread with pics of Capn'n Morgans slugs and post #22 shows my finned solid slugs:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=brenneke

Unfortunately it looks like Cap'n Morgan used Photobucket so pics are out of focus.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=brenneke

post #14 shows my Hb ribbed slugs and a solid Brenneke style.

Captains Morgans beautiful Brenneke clone:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...light=brenneke

post #77 is probably the best out of focus pic of Cap'n Morgan's Brenneke clone. I believe he used EDM to form the cavity and he has access to injection moulding equipment for the skirts. So not only is his skill set beyond most people's but he has access to some pretty sophisticated equipment. His mould also is a push pout style mould more like a die cast or injection mould.

So, no, a conventional split mould cannot be used to make ribbed or finned slugs with any more than 4 ribs or fins but moulds and swaging dies can be made to produce finned or ribbed slugs. Putting a helical twist on the ribs/fins is beyond my ability though.

Really though the ribs are not necessary. They are used to lower bore friction and to allow collapse at a choke. Taofeadermaus shows that "rifled" slugs do in fact rotate slowly but not near fast enough to provide gyroscopic stabilization, just enough to limit deviation from POA by a bit... much like helical fletch on an arrow.

Longbow

[country gent]

with conventional cutters the "rifling" around the slug would be next to impossible to cut accurately. This angled rifling is the main issue. But its not impossible to cut in a standard 2 cavity set of blocks. An electrode could be machined from copper or carbon and burnt in with an edm. This electrode would be an image if the slug and ,015-,020 undersized.

As far as the felt wad that would require some additional fixtures or maybe a small stem on the base to align it and screw it on. Being a shotgun slug blocks will be large and need large handles. But I think it could be done, probably not cost effective since the edm is a slower machining process. I also believe I would use 4 guide pins to insure alignment where the rifling might cross over the blocks. Might need to lightly angle edges of rifling to aid release

[Cap'n Morgan]

It can be done, but not with an conventional mold - and it's a bit of a hassel... Okay, make that a lot of a hassel.

These Brenneke-clones are made from a two-part push-out mold. The wads are made to fit the slug with a self-tapping screw, and are injection molded from polproperlyene plastic.
The pictured slugs have helical ribs, but straight ribs works almost as well, and doesn't need an EDM machine to make.



And they shoot great! This is a fifty yard group from a smooth bore Browning:

[W.R.Buchanan]

Cap'n: Did you make that Mould? Cuz it looks like it works pretty well.

It's not like you have to make a zillion of them, since most people would never even shoot 50 of them. Pretty much a hunting slug and not a target shooting slug. Most of the lower powered Brenneke slugs are priced below $8 for a box of 5, the super powerful ones are more like $10+ a box. So for the intended usage it doesn't make sense to make them at home. Your's do look better than all of the loose Brenneke slugs I have seen. It's like they let the slugs "Age" after swaging them for a few years before loading them. They are pretty beat up so maybe they just toss them in a bucket without regard for what it does to the soft lead. see pic.

Also BPI sells some things called "Thug Slugs" which are made in Italy by Gualandi (they are nice!!!) with the wad already installed for reasonable prices. $21 for 25 with new Cheddite Hulls. or $17 for just the slugs. The ribs on these are .721 on the OD and the base ring of the slug is .729 OD, so they are effectively full bore and come with the wad attached. See Pic.

I haven't shot any from my A5 with the Hastings Rifled Barrel which is by far my most accurate slug shooter, or the Buck Special barrel which is pretty good too, but if the results with STI slugs with my Brass or Cast Lead inserts are any indication the results should be "Rifle Like" in every aspect. Even if it limits you to an accurate 100 yards, the vast majority of shots you would be anticipating with a shotgun would be within that limit. You could go father if you had the trajectory sussed out well.

Randy

It should be noted: that Brenneke Slugs are loaded into RIO hulls so the payload and powder charge are the only variables. I took some apart to see what was inside and put them back together with the same new RIO hulls,,, same with Lightfield Slugs, did them too. See Pic.

[Cap'n Morgan]

Randy.

Yes, I made the mold. It started as a project to make a decent slug for smooth bore shotguns, and sort of took on a life of its own. I've lost count of how many different slug and wad mold designs I tried over the years. Some didn't work at all, some worked quite well, but the original Brenneke design proved to be the most accurate of the bunch.
I guess the marked is too small for a ribbed slug mold made on a commercial basis. It could probably be done using a steel powder sintering process or investment casting, but I haven't seen any takers out there.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Since you are a shooter and a hunter you would require more ammo than the average guy who shoots 3 rounds a year to bag a Deer to make sausage out of.

I can't hunt anything in CAlifornia with any kind of lead ammo any more so I concocted the Brass Insert for the STI Sabots. I am on the Approved List for hunting ammo in CA and Brenneke was not. I talked to them at the SHOT Show and told them what to do to get on the list. Not much call for non toxic shotgun slugs either, as nobody has come looking for them since I got on the list. Last year I was the ONLY ONE of the list! I could see pig hunting with them, but they are way too much for our puny deer. It would be DRT + about 3 complete flips after impact. A good sized Mule Deer Buck in my area might go 120 lbs, does are <100 lbs.

Your mould looks like it produces nice slugs. Did you make the wads too?

Randy

[Cap'n Morgan]

Have you ever tried any of the steel slugs mentioned here?

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...fective-r-i-p/

I've toyed with the idea of making steel or brass slugs on our CNC Swiss machine and then add a plastic seal and guide ring - perhaps molding them directly on the slug. But so far I managed to resist the urge.

[Blood Trail]

Since you are a shooter and a hunter you would require more ammo than the average guy who shoots 3 rounds a year to bag a Deer to make sausage out of.

I can't hunt anything in CAlifornia with any kind of lead ammo any more so I concocted the Brass Insert for the STI Sabots. I am on the Approved List for hunting ammo in CA and Brenneke was not. I talked to them at the SHOT Show and told them what to do to get on the list. Not much call for non toxic shotgun slugs either, as nobody has come looking for them since I got on the list. Last year I was the ONLY ONE of the list! I could see pig hunting with them, but they are way too much for our puny deer. It would be DRT + about 3 complete flips after impact. A good sized Mule Deer Buck in my area might go 120 lbs, does are <100 lbs.

Your mould looks like it produces nice slugs. Did you make the wads too?

Randy

Brenneke makes a couple of non-tox slugs. They have the Super Sabot (great round! Shot two pigs with one slug a few ago), the Topas sabot which is a zinc sabot (shoot like garbage out of a couple of my guns) and one I believe they called the green slug. Haven’t seen that one in a while. They might have discontinued it.


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[tomme boy]

If someone is a good programmer, you could 3d print one. They have metal printing now. Have seen some really cool EFI intakes and throttle bodies printed.

If you search youtube, there are a few people in Turkey and that area that made almost exactly the same as the Brenneke slugs