CZ Barrel Leading

[GTIV]

I would second the advice to pull a few of those bullets after running the cartridges through the factory crimp die and measure them. I would be willing to bet they are getting swaged down a little.

IMO that die is great if youre loading jacketed bullets. But in my experience it always swaged lead/coated down a few thou (depending on case wall thickness). In fact I removed the carbide ring from my .357/.38 Lee FCD so that it only roll crimps and doesnt swage the coated bullets down.

Also, the throat/leade on some CZ barrels is known for being a little bit short. So it could be a good test to take one of your loaded rounds and do the plunk/spin test in the barrel to see if the bullet is hitting the rifling at the OAL youre loading at.

It does not touch the rifling I can turn the bullet in the chamber

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[JonB_in_Glencoe]

It does not touch the rifling I can turn the bullet in the chamber

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that's good, but the damage will typically happen (if it's gonna happen), when the boolit is launched from the case and into the barrel. Have you looked at the throat?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

See post #7
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=1#post4083651

That is what the throat should look like...and almost all new semi-auto's DON'T look like that, at least not the new one's I've bought in the last 5 years

[RydForLyf]

Hi
I have been casting boolits for about a year now and I am using HiTek to coat it.

I have recently changed over from a stock 2 Tanfo to CZ shadow 2

The problem I have now it's the S2 barrel is leading up.
This is what I have done thus far.
Lead hardness is 14/15
Changed lead to new lead
Changed coating to different combination of coating and passed acetone and Smash test..
Bought Cast Boolits from a manufacturer who sells these and his process is perfect.

Everyone one of them is leading and quickly too.
Heres a Pic after 50 rounds.

Any input will be appreciated

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What powder are you using? SLOW is the way to go.

[RydForLyf]

Thank you guys for the prompt replies. I have been learning here for a while

OK so I have slugged the barrel to 0.356 and I was loading 0.356. I also tried load 0.357 and the results were the same.
The only thing I can think off either the rifling needs some attention due to sharp edges or its the Lee factory crimp die causing it to size the boolit down.
I will investigate further today

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I have been told to NEVER use a Lee FCD for cast 9mm. Use a taper crimp. The ring in the FCD swages the bullet and it is then undersize.

[GTIV]

What powder are you using? SLOW is the way to go.

We use what's available but S121 is fast from what I hear.
What do you suggest?

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[mozee]

Hello fellow Saffer. Yes S121 is very fast. Try S221. Most of the production and production optics are using S221.

Edit: not most, quite a few.

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[mozee]

FYI S121 is close to VV N310 and S221 is close to VV 3N37


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[GTIV]

Hello fellow Saffer. Yes S121 is very fast. Try S221. Most of the production and production optics are using S221.

Edit: not most, quite a few.

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If we can get some is another story. I will check Monday

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[mozee]

If we can get some is another story. I will check Monday

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Some dealers do have. Picked up some tins last week.


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[RydForLyf]

We use what's available but S121 is fast from what I hear.
What do you suggest?

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BE-86 is real popular, Unique, CFE Pistol, Power Pistol or anything around that speed. Look at the Powder Burn Rate charts and find something in this neighborhood.

I had HORRIBLE leading with Clay's. It is like #4 on some charts, WAY TOO FAST.

[mozee]

BE-86 is real popular, Unique, CFE Pistol, Power Pistol or anything around that speed. Look at the Powder Burn Rate charts and find something in this neighborhood.

I had HORRIBLE leading with Clay's. It is like #4 on some charts, WAY TOO FAST.

CFE pistol is available this side of the pond.


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[onelight]

I have been told to NEVER use a Lee FCD for cast 9mm. Use a taper crimp. The ring in the FCD swages the bullet and it is then undersize.

People have different experiences, I use the carbide crimp die on all my 9mm ammo , but I load .356 or .357 bullets and they are all hi-tek coated.
I have 8 ,9mms one of my shooting buddy's has 3 and he also uses the Lee 4 die sets we get very little to no leading most of our loads are 950 to 1050 FPS 124 and 135 gr. If you need oversized bullets it's the wrong choice if .355 to .356 work at moderate velocity they simplify the process. I have a few cartridges I don't use them on but I do on 9, 40 , 45 auto.

[GTIV]

I might have forgot to mention.
We are using these CZs for a while now with the same load / heads. Same coating as well
Only recently the leading had become crazy. Previously once in a while you will find a little.

This is why I went to new lead coating and even commercially hitek made boolits

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[onelight]

How many rounds are fired between cleanings ?

[GTIV]

Max 500
We getting leading now after like 30rounds

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[whisler]

Have you changed brass source lately? Certain brands are thicker than others and more likely to swage down the boolit when seating.
I had my CZ75 throated, switched to a 38 S & W expander and used slightly harder lead and still had some leading until I switched to a slower powder (Unique in place of 231). Now all is well.

[GTIV]

Brass is the same I mainly use S&B brass.

So this is the steps I intend taking now.
Change out crimp die to Dillon and probably find someone to throat the barrel.

I can't think of anything else.

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[DougGuy]

Unfortunately, the Shadow 2 is stuck with whatever throat it ships with. These barrels are case hardened, and the case hardening is VERY hard. Considerably harder than a salt bath hardened barrel. Chucking one of these barrels in the lathe for crowning with carbide tooling produced an extremely loud and piercing scream, which the carbide cutter merely shined the end of the barrel then with enough pressure against it, it suddenly broke into and through the case hard layer, and was soft underneath.

Since cutting freebore in a barrel involves mostly a shave of sorts, it is impossible to cut into the thickness of the case hardened layer with a carbide reamer, and if the reamer did break through into the underlay, the freebore would be quite a bit oversized.

If I had a small toolpost grinder for the lathe, I could conceivably grind freebore into the throat but this would be the only way. DW barrels are the same way, I did use a Cratex high torque air driven grinder mounted in a boring bar holder on my toolpost to put a forcing cone into one of the DW barrels and it worked well, but this was out where I could see the work and control the angle, it would be much more difficult to try and throat a CZ barrel, near impossible to center the chamber in a 3 jaw chuck unless I got lucky and it was concentric with the outside of the barrel.

[GTIV]

Unfortunately, the Shadow 2 is stuck with whatever throat it ships with. These barrels are case hardened, and the case hardening is VERY hard. Considerably harder than a salt bath hardened barrel. Chucking one of these barrels in the lathe for crowning with carbide tooling produced an extremely loud and piercing scream, which the carbide cutter merely shined the end of the barrel then with enough pressure against it, it suddenly broke into and through the case hard layer, and was soft underneath.

Since cutting freebore in a barrel involves mostly a shave of sorts, it is impossible to cut into the thickness of the case hardened layer with a carbide reamer, and if the reamer did break through into the underlay, the freebore would be quite a bit oversized.

If I had a small toolpost grinder for the lathe, I could conceivably grind freebore into the throat but this would be the only way. DW barrels are the same way, I did use a Cratex high torque air driven grinder mounted in a boring bar holder on my toolpost to put a forcing cone into one of the DW barrels and it worked well, but this was out where I could see the work and control the angle, it would be much more difficult to try and throat a CZ barrel, near impossible to center the chamber in a 3 jaw chuck unless I got lucky and it was concentric with the outside of the barrel.

Thanks for that information
What do you suggest?
Should try and do it and leave it alone?

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