H&G 241.429.zemanek

[pcmacd]

I was at the Orange County (People's Socialist Republik of Kalifornia) gun show several years back. This one vendor dude had all manner of H&G 6 cavity molds for sale. I bought _ONLY ONE_. It was an exercise in self control, trust me on this.

The cast iron mold was apparently owned by JOHN ZEMANEK, the guy who wrote the book on boolet casting. I only realized this yesterday, after cleaning the mold (see below) and, having read an article in Handloader Boolet Casting Journal #2 yesterday, (which is ancient) that Zemanek authored. I was astonished to have this in my possession, to say the least... a mold previously owned by the Prince of Cast Boolets.

• See the attached pitchers.

Please note that I have quite successfully cast over a hundred thousand boolets on my Magma Engineering Master Caster, and other smaller pots, using all manner of various molds, and all manner of mixes for all manner of applications; I have seldom had problems... until now.

• There is also a problem with another H&G mold, also soaked in motor oil, which I shall reserve for a separate thread.

This particular mold is an H&G "241.429" six cavity, 44 flat base, 0.429" nominal diameter. Nice. I could have also purchased a GC version at the same time, but that, sirs, is another story (the fiancé, when appraised by my pal that I found an awesome mold, only asked, "HOW MANY DID HE BUY?????") SADLY, IT WERE ONLY ONE I bought!

~~~~~~~~~~
Now, to the issue at hand.

The mold was in purrrfect condition. It was covered in motor oil, which is a good thing, methinks.

I first tried indoor range salvage lead with foundry type added 11:1, which, if the range salvage had no lead and antimony would yield approximately 1.5% lead and about 2.3% antimony. These are rough figures.

Initially I hosed the mold down with a non-chlorinated brake cleaner and tried about a hundert casts; all of them were nasty, not filled out, and had whipples up and down the noses. See above formulation.

For the life of me, I could not get the boolets to fill out, even when casting at 800F for extended periods.

The following day the mold was oozing motor oil. Ho hum.

So, I pulled out this really aggressive powdered cleaner I bought from Magma Engineering years ago. It was recommended to me by Paul Moore (?), the guy who quite literally wrote the book on commercial boolet casting. Use 1 teaspoon in two oz. of very hot water; scrub the living hell out of the cavities with a nylon brush, then rinse, dry and cast.

No dice. Same problems.

So, I smoked the cavities using wooden matches. Smoked and smoked. Still, round bases and irregular front band (the wadcutter front end.) What is a mother to do?

I smoked it again. And again. No dice. Boolets still not filled out, and bases not nice (rounded, not flat.)

So, then I added foundry type to the pot to give me ~3% added tin and ~4.5% added antimony. Of course, I fluxed at 800F to ensure the FT is absorbed OK, as recommend by Arthur Greene of Beverly Hills fame... this guy has two masters degrees (one in metallurgy) and really knows his stuff. Fluxed two or three times with paraffin, and a couple more with borax (Marvelux.)

I smoked the molds again 2x (they are really hard to keep lit!)

Casting at temperatures between 700F and 800F, I still canno get the boolets to fill out.

Help! Help Cecil, Help!

I am loosing my stuff here.

Can anybody recommend a boolet casting shrink????

mac

[bruce381]

""The following day the mold was oozing motor oil. Ho hum.""

maybe a overnight soak in something like lacquar thinner?
Turn down pot to high and get mold hotter?

[pcmacd]

The first time I cleaned the mold, I used lots of brake cleaner -- that's when it was oozing oil the next day. Then I scrubbed it with a really aggressive cleaner from Magma Engineering (for about fifteen minutes or so), and bullets were still not filling out. I upped the tin to about 3% added tin -- that's always worked when there has been a problem.

Then I ran the caster at about 810F. That's truly HOT, and I don't care to go higher.

I'm going to try boiling the mold in a TSP solution as the H&G instructions (which I just found here) note.

I've never dealt with a mold stored in motor oil before, and this has to be the problem with this and the H&G 68 I came across.

[jsizemore]

Running your alloy temp at 750F and up is burning up you tin. It takes a bit to get a 6 cavity iron mold up to temp so preheat on a hot plate. I set mine on medium and put the the mold base on the hot plate when I start the casting pot. After about 10-15 minutes, I flip the mold over so it's on the sprue cutter with the mold closed. After 3 or 4 casts I'm dropping well filled out boolits.

Looks like you have a early to mid Murphy, Ore. H&G. I got one from that era and it produces some fine boolits.

[pcmacd]

Note that I have modified my Magma Engineering Master Caster to accept gang molds.

Please see pictures below.




~~~~~~~~~~
Well, The H&G #241 mold (44 cal, 200 grains, etc.) STILL din't work so good after the hour long TSP boil, with range salvage and foundry type to yield about 3% tin added, which is a fairly high amount of tin in my experience.

I cast the Magma Engineering (ME) equivalent of the H&G 68, and all manner of other stuff, with minor exceptions, just fine, with the same lots of range salvage (RS) and foundry type (FT) at 2% added tin, depending upon the assumptions one makes regarding the tin content of RS. That's around 11:1 RS:FT.

The ME boolet looks like this, and is a spitting image of the H&G #68:



With the ME mold, I get a nicely filled out boolet, with extraordinarily well filled out shoulders on the wadcutter edge. It's perfection, with RS and FT at 11:1, more or less, 2% added Sn, at about 725F to 750F.

I've also used some H&G molds custom made for me for the ME that are just awesome. The #130/0.452"/185 grain job is just, oh, so easy to cast! No worries! I could make good boolets with this at 650F! (Well, mebe...) I can also dumb down the Sn as it has no sharp shoulders. Itbe a cheapie to use!

Back to the H&G #241: As a last resort, I tried spraying some #204 (?) "Spray-On" graphite on this, the #241/0.429", and the H&G #68 mold. Surely did look purty! The MSDS shows all volatiles (meaning, nothing to stick in your behind, as in, it evaporates readily), but incredibly, the MSDS did not note carbon or graphite in a GRAPHITE SPRAY! I axed them about it, and will likely never hear back. But then...

The graphite spray did well for the #68, but made not a whit of difference for the #241 with an alloy of range salvage plus enough foundry type to bring the tin content up to 2%, at temperatures varying from 735F to 800F.

This mold belonged to a SERIOUSLY well known authority on boolet casting, John Zemanek. It is in purrrfect mechanical condition. I can't believe there is anything wrong with it.

I have never had any issues like this before. Itbe a real head scratcher.

Halp! Cecil! Halp!

[mzemanek1337]

I was at the Orange County (People's Socialist Republik of Kalifornia) gun show several years back. This one vendor dude had all manner of H&G 6 cavity molds for sale. I bought _ONLY ONE_. It was an exercise in self control, trust me on this.

The cast iron mold was apparently owned by JOHN ZEMANEK, the guy who wrote the book on boolet casting. I only realized this yesterday, after cleaning the mold (see below) and, having read an article in Handloader Boolet Casting Journal #2 yesterday, (which is ancient) that Zemanek authored. I was astonished to have this in my possession, to say the least... a mold previously owned by the Prince of Cast Boolets.

• See the attached pitchers.

Please note that I have quite successfully cast over a hundred thousand boolets on my Magma Engineering Master Caster, and other smaller pots, using all manner of various molds, and all manner of mixes for all manner of applications; I have seldom had problems... until now.

• There is also a problem with another H&G mold, also soaked in motor oil, which I shall reserve for a separate thread.

This particular mold is an H&G "241.429" six cavity, 44 flat base, 0.429" nominal diameter. Nice. I could have also purchased a GC version at the same time, but that, sirs, is another story (the fiancé, when appraised by my pal that I found an awesome mold, only asked, "HOW MANY DID HE BUY?????") SADLY, IT WERE ONLY ONE I bought!

~~~~~~~~~~
Now, to the issue at hand.

The mold was in purrrfect condition. It was covered in motor oil, which is a good thing, methinks.

I first tried indoor range salvage lead with foundry type added 11:1, which, if the range salvage had no lead and antimony would yield approximately 1.5% lead and about 2.3% antimony. These are rough figures.

Initially I hosed the mold down with a non-chlorinated brake cleaner and tried about a hundert casts; all of them were nasty, not filled out, and had whipples up and down the noses. See above formulation.

For the life of me, I could not get the boolets to fill out, even when casting at 800F for extended periods.

The following day the mold was oozing motor oil. Ho hum.

So, I pulled out this really aggressive powdered cleaner I bought from Magma Engineering years ago. It was recommended to me by Paul Moore (?), the guy who quite literally wrote the book on commercial boolet casting. Use 1 teaspoon in two oz. of very hot water; scrub the living hell out of the cavities with a nylon brush, then rinse, dry and cast.

No dice. Same problems.

So, I smoked the cavities using wooden matches. Smoked and smoked. Still, round bases and irregular front band (the wadcutter front end.) What is a mother to do?

I smoked it again. And again. No dice. Boolets still not filled out, and bases not nice (rounded, not flat.)

So, then I added foundry type to the pot to give me ~3% added tin and ~4.5% added antimony. Of course, I fluxed at 800F to ensure the FT is absorbed OK, as recommend by Arthur Greene of Beverly Hills fame... this guy has two masters degrees (one in metallurgy) and really knows his stuff. Fluxed two or three times with paraffin, and a couple more with borax (Marvelux.)

I smoked the molds again 2x (they are really hard to keep lit!)

Casting at temperatures between 700F and 800F, I still canno get the boolets to fill out.

Help! Help Cecil, Help!

I am loosing my stuff here.

Can anybody recommend a boolet casting shrink????

mac

Ronzemanek@gmail.com

I'm Ron's son, JZ's grandson. Email my father, he will be able to help you sir.

[bhn22]

Once you get rid of the oil that's soaked into the mold, try casting at about 650 with H&G molds. My 503 was the only mold I ever had that was that temperature sensitive. Even 700 degrees got me rounded corners. Once the mold was at a temp it liked, I could make it rain bullets all day if the lead would hold out.

[Grump]

Not quite old enough to be a Zombie Thread, but PLEASE, pcmacd, let us know what has or has not happened since your last post.

Me, I'd be trying a 24-hour bath in acetone that's at least 80°F, closed off to prevent evaporation. At least a pint.

If that doesn't work, I'd be looking at higher-temp tolerant solvents.

[bhn22]

I missed that entirely, Grump.

[pcmacd]

Not quite old enough to be a Zombie Thread, but PLEASE, pcmacd, let us know what has or has not happened since your last post.

Me, I'd be trying a 24-hour bath in acetone that's at least 80°F, closed off to prevent evaporation. At least a pint.

If that doesn't work, I'd be looking at higher-temp tolerant solvents.

Well... I've finally gotten packed and moved from The People's Socialist Republik of Kalifornia, to Arizona, Where Free Men Dwell.

Recently purchased a couple of Bulldogs in 44 SPL and put that mold to work.

I guess I just never got it hot enough before.

Cranked my pot up to just shy of 800F, preheated the mold @pot top, and after five or six casts was making great SWCs with pure wheel weight alloy.

~~~~~
I used to use "Leade Engineering Tool Service", a.k.a. "LETS" white graphite in a spray can on my molds; it was designed for that porpoise. Goes on white, then goes clear at temperature and disappears even when cooled down. Also keeps stuff from rusting.

LETS is no longer around, so I thought I'd try some #204 "Dry Graphite Lube" marketed by Sprayon, found at McFadden-Dale industrial hardware supply in Anaheim, CA (they are in most major cities west of the Mississippi River. )

https://www.sprayon.com/product/lu20...ite-lubricant/

It is jet black, and according to the MSDS has acetone (as a carrier, 55%), propanol (as a propellent, 42%), and 2.1% graphite by weight. No residue. None. Nada. Zero. Zilch. Nichts.

Works fabulously on molds! It likely inhibits rust, but my experience with it is limited.

And locks.

Keep it off your bagels.

[pcmacd]

Ronzemanek@gmail.com

I'm Ron's son, JZ's grandson. Email my father, he will be able to help you sir.

Thanks for your offer of help, sir. I had no time to take you up on it previously. Problem solved!

What city did your grandfather live in? Did he sell bullets? I'd wager he did. I'll finish the story if/when you respond.

tanks

mac