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Thread: I know that most of us here are Theists

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    I know that most of us here are Theists

    So how do you think God intervenes in the world? Do you believe that God answers prayers?

    If you pray for a cure for one who is sick, do you expect a miracle or just an explainable cure or remission.

    Why do we even pray? God knows our hopes, dreams, loves, aspirations. God knows everything.

    Are silent prayers as good as praying out loud?

    Have you ever prayed evil for your enemies?

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

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  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    You've been insistent that no one even think you may be a Christian and you don't at all care what scripture says so I wonder why you pretend to care what Christians believe. I mean, you've consistently made it clear you don't believe anything we believe so why pose more questions simply to make a rhetorical platform for you to posture on; why not just write what you want the world to hear about what you think and be done with it?

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    Is that a Christian attitude?
    EDG

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDG View Post
    Is that a Christian attitude?
    Our Christian duty to present the gospel has been well fulfilled with Tim. So if the Mat 7:6 and 10:14 sayings of Christ Jesus himself means anything to you, yes it is a Christian attitude.

    I do and will continue to pray for Tim's salvation but I'm not playing his childish head game of salvation according to Tim as if it means anything anymore. You do as you will.
    Last edited by 1hole; 02-26-2020 at 03:56 PM.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master


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    This from the NIV Study Bible commenting on Matt 7.7-8 on prayer:

    What Jesus was promising here is insight and drection through the work of the Spirit within us. Jesus was not promising that we will receive whatever we might think we need. As the Holy Spirit directs our hearts, we will desire those things that God desires. We can have faith to see those things accomplished as the fulfillment of His promise."

    This is not an easy principle to accept if you lose a 4 year old child or grandchild. I cannot bring myself to accept how the death of a child can serve His promise...and that praying for a cure is somehow wrong.
    Don Verna

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDG View Post
    Is that a Christian attitude?
    I would think the Christian attitude would mean that you would listen and try to have a meaningful discussion. So far I have seen very little of that. I guess "The Bible tell me so" sums it up.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    If we are Christ's disciples, we pray because He prayed; we pray because He told us to pray; because He told us to pray without ceasing; because He taught us to pray; because He told us to pray and not give up; and if we were honest, because most of the time that is all we can do.

    "Dear Lord, we are so lost without You, help us to pray..."

    "Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is." 1 John 3:2 (NASB)

    exile
    "There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost, and religious liberty preserved entire. If therefore we yield up our temporal property, we at the same time deliver the conscience into bondage." --John Witherspoon, The Dominion of Providence Over the Passions of Men. 1776

    "The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times." Psalm 12:6 (E.S.V.)

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Tim I'm not a very good Christian , but every day I try to be better . If you ever feel the call of the Lord and you would like to pray just do it whenever wherever and however .

  9. #9
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    You've been insistent that no one even think you may be a Christian and you don't at all care what scripture says so I wonder why you pretend to care what Christians believe. I mean, you've consistently made it clear you don't believe anything we believe so why pose more questions simply to make a rhetorical platform for you to posture on; why not just write what you want the world to hear about what you think and be done with it?
    I was thinking the exact same thing!

  10. #10
    Boolit Master



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    Acts 20:28-30
    28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.
    LOYALTY ABOVE ALL ELSE, EXCEPT HONOR

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    You've been insistent that no one even think you may be a Christian and you don't at all care what scripture says so I wonder why you pretend to care what Christians believe. I mean, you've consistently made it clear you don't believe anything we believe so why pose more questions simply to make a rhetorical platform for you to posture on; why not just write what you want the world to hear about what you think and be done with it?
    i agree ...tim seems to be a person who likes to stir the pot and doesn't see the stew, because he has been given very good biblical info and continually argues on his own beliefs. says he believes in god , but so does a lot of people and that alone won't save them. example ; he believes that donald trump is president but does donald trump know him?

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by toallmy View Post
    Tim I'm not a very good Christian , but every day I try to be better . If you ever feel the call of the Lord and you would like to pray just do it whenever wherever and however .
    I pray sometimes. After I pray I wonder why I am praying. God knows how I feel. Why should I be asking God to change things, who am I to make requests or even suggestions to God.

    In the fourth post to this thread 1hole says he prays for my salvation. Somehow that just seems insulting, it does not seem heart felt. There is nothing wrong with him praying for me but the crowing about it, just does not seem right. I think he is just virtue signaling.

    When people ask us to pray for them, I do. I guess, responding with a "prayers sent" might be reassuring to those who asked. There seems to be a dynamic to this that is as much social as it is religious.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    You've been insistent that no one even think you may be a Christian and you don't at all care what scripture says so I wonder why you pretend to care what Christians believe. I mean, you've consistently made it clear you don't believe anything we believe so why pose more questions simply to make a rhetorical platform for you to posture on; why not just write what you want the world to hear about what you think and be done with it?
    I think that I believe a lot of things Christians believe. There is much in scripture with which I agree. I think that much of value in scripture is how it separates virtue from vice. How it uses stories to explain right and wrong.

    Right is: prudence, justice, fortitude, temperance, faith, hope, and charity.

    Wrong is: pride, envy, gluttony, lust, anger, greed, and sloth.

    I believe these things that Jesus taught, I just don't believe Jesus is God.

    I come here and tell people that I think it is more important that they do what is right and avoid what is wrong than it is that they believe Jesus is God. I know the Bible says differently but I don't believe the Bible is always right.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    Wow...

    As it is apparent you have set yourself as your own god, why bother with the questions?
    "In general, the art of government is to take as much money as possible from one class of citizens and give it to another class of citizens" Voltaire'

    The common virtue of capitalism is the sharing of equal opportunity. The common vice of socialism is the equal sharing of misery

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  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
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    Well,....
    Getting back On Topic.

    Yes, I sometimes pray. Actually it is more of a one way conversation that I express how I feel about certain things.
    Sometimes I complain to God about stuff that I see in this world that is so ...saddening.

    I get hung up sometimes when, for instance, I see an older person hunched over when walking and can see some pain going on.
    Then I ask God to give that person some healing and a better quality of life.
    During that "conversation" I start thinking of Aunt Mary, or Uncle Bill and ask for the same thing for them. Then it expands in my mind about all of the other people in this country, then the world that also need help in some fashion.
    Then, it seems so selfish of me to just ask for help for that one person. Then I get frustrated and stop.

    Are prayers answered?
    I hope so but most of the time I would say NO.
    Perhaps I am looking for a somewhat immediate response but God may take His time to answer the prayer some time down the road.

    My nephew belongs to a Christian congregation and his wife was pregnant with twins and it was later found out that one of the twins would not make it. I forget what the problem was.
    The whole congregation got involved and all did some heavy praying for that baby.
    This went on for two or three months.
    He, and the congregation were so convinced that Jesus would intervene and give a miracle to that baby.
    Then he (they) could claim that miracles do happen.

    But, the baby did not make it. <sigh>
    I thought that this might shatter his faith but it did not.

    "Ask and ye shall receive".
    Uh-hh, ........nope.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    As the Holy Spirit directs our hearts, we will desire those things that God desires. We can have faith to see those things accomplished as the fulfillment of His promise.".......

    This is not an easy principle to accept if you lose a 4 year old child or grandchild.
    You're right Don. I think the near death of my then 4 1/2 year old grandaughter with kidney cancer remains one of the most gut tearing experiences of my life. To the astonishment of the medics, by prayer she survived and has given us two delightful great-grandsons but neither she nor her husband profess Christ today. If that persists she (and her sons) will pay a terrible price for her survival so now we pray for her salvation as fervently as we did 25 years ago for her life.

    I cannot bring myself to accept .... that praying for a cure is somehow wrong.
    It is not wrong at all; we rightly pray for anything our heart aches for. But God is not the Great Santa Claus in the sky standing by to fill our wish list. I believe we should pray as we want and trustfully end our prayers the way Jesus ended his on the mount of olives: "... Father I really don't want this painful cup but, nevertheless, not my will but Thine be done." (Luke 22:42-43 - my own paraphrase)

    Many say God doesn't answer prayers. That's not so, God ALWAYS answers our prayers; sometimes 'yes', sometimes "later', sometimes 'no'. Perhaps, like the Lord, we do best when we pray for what we want and trust the Father to know best, even in our agony and tears, if the answer is no?

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy


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    God is Triune. Three in one. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Think of it like this, we humans have a mind, body and a spirit, and we are made in His image. So with God it is, God the Father is the mind element since He is the all knowing part, not physically touchable. God the Son is the body element since He became flesh and dwelt here on earth with us. God the Holy Spirit is self explanatory being the spirit element. Nothing in Gods word is wrong, period. First,the problem is with humans being able to accept the answers we receive. Second, doing what is right and avoiding what is wrong can be a nice epitaph, but it won't get me into heaven. No one can "earn" his way to salvation, because it comes by Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ. "No one comes to the Father, but by me" (Jesus). We can not get to our salvation by anything we can do in our own strength, it is a gift from God through His Son, period. Third, does God answer prayer, absolutely! WE have to accept the fact that sometimes, and for our own good, the answer is NO. Look back at your childhood, or your children's, did your dad give you everything you asked for? Or did you give your children everything they asked for? No, they didn't and we didn't. Why? Because they and we felt we knew best for them because we/they were immature. As Paul said, we did not run right away, we had to crawl, learn to walk and then learn to run and it is the same with Christianity. (Paraphrase) We question God's answers to our prayers because we expect to get what we want, because we, as Christians are immature and need to grow.
    I too am an immature Christian and I have been a practicing Christian for more than 30 years. It is hard for all of us to accept an answer we don't want, I'm no different.
    My suggestion for you Tim, and anyone else who has questions, is to find a local church and speak to the clergyman there. Ask him your questions, you won't have to join their church or contribute financially if you don't want to, and he or she will be more than happy to answer your questions and pray with you if you so choose. Whatever you do, don't shut God out, get to know Him. He wants to know you. Oh, and why pray since He already knows your wants, hurts and dreams? Because He simply wants to hear from us! I pray at least once every day, not bragging just an example, and sometimes it's just to say thank you God for the simple things. I pray right now that our heavenly Father would reach out and bless each and every one of you right now, even if just to tell you He loves you. YMMV God bless.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    The only thing I know about all this ....is that Divinity had only asked of us that they be "Praised every day" Praise the Lord twas all that was asked of us!
    Read it, Learn it, understand it!
    " Associate with men of good quality, if you esteem your own reputation: for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " George Washington

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by sharps4590 View Post
    Wow...

    As it is apparent you have set yourself as your own god, why bother with the questions?
    I certainly am not God. God is the creator of the universe. The questions are to prompt dialog and introspection. You it seems want to shut down the dialog which is contrary to the point of this forum.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by tankgunner59 View Post
    God is Triune. Three in one. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Think of it like this, we humans have a mind, body and a spirit, and we are made in His image. So with God it is, God the Father is the mind element since He is the all knowing part, not physically touchable. God the Son is the body element since He became flesh and dwelt here on earth with us. God the Holy Spirit is self explanatory being the spirit element. Nothing in Gods word is wrong, period. First,the problem is with humans being able to accept the answers we receive. Second, doing what is right and avoiding what is wrong can be a nice epitaph, but it won't get me into heaven. No one can "earn" his way to salvation, because it comes by Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ. "No one comes to the Father, but by me" (Jesus). We can not get to our salvation by anything we can do in our own strength, it is a gift from God through His Son, period. Third, does God answer prayer, absolutely! WE have to accept the fact that sometimes, and for our own good, the answer is NO. Look back at your childhood, or your children's, did your dad give you everything you asked for? Or did you give your children everything they asked for? No, they didn't and we didn't. Why? Because they and we felt we knew best for them because we/they were immature. As Paul said, we did not run right away, we had to crawl, learn to walk and then learn to run and it is the same with Christianity. (Paraphrase) We question God's answers to our prayers because we expect to get what we want, because we, as Christians are immature and need to grow.
    I too am an immature Christian and I have been a practicing Christian for more than 30 years. It is hard for all of us to accept an answer we don't want, I'm no different.
    My suggestion for you Tim, and anyone else who has questions, is to find a local church and speak to the clergyman there. Ask him your questions, you won't have to join their church or contribute financially if you don't want to, and he or she will be more than happy to answer your questions and pray with you if you so choose. Whatever you do, don't shut God out, get to know Him. He wants to know you. Oh, and why pray since He already knows your wants, hurts and dreams? Because He simply wants to hear from us! I pray at least once every day, not bragging just an example, and sometimes it's just to say thank you God for the simple things. I pray right now that our heavenly Father would reach out and bless each and every one of you right now, even if just to tell you He loves you. YMMV God bless.
    Thank you for your considered response.

    I know the Christian answers to those questions and I find them lacking. I have not come here looking for answers, I come here looking for converts, not to get people to give up Christianity but to get them to act more the way Jesus would want. Do more good, love everyone, stop sinning. Don't count on forgiveness don't do things you will need forgiven.

    Your Suggestion
    "My suggestion for you Tim, and anyone else who has questions, is to find a local church and speak to the clergyman there."
    I think is misplaced, you go to a Church and speak to the clergyman you get church dogma. Why did you not suggest I go to a Temple, Synagogue, Shrine or Mosque. Why would I get better advice at a Church.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

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