S&W Victory Australian Issue

[silhouette_shooter]

I'm thinking about buying one of these. I hear people say they shoot .358 cast bullets out of these guns and they work just fine but I am skeptical since the bore diameter of the 38 S&W is somewhere around .361, not only that, but how is a .358 bullet going to be held properly in a piece of 38 s&w brass that is larger in diameter? Who out there has bench rested one of these revolvers with .358 cast bullets and measured the group size.

[Outpost75]

I have two .38 S&W Victory Models, one British marked and the other Australian.

Cylinder throats of both guns are .362" and barrels slug .359". Factory .38 S&W ammunition of all common brands, Winchester, Remington and Fiocchi is loaded with 146-grain bullets which in my revolvers shoot low right. Starline brass is the best. In my guns Accurate 36-187H or 36-190T tumbled in Lee Liquid Alox and loaded as-cast and unsized at .361" diameter in 1:30 tin-lead from Roto Metals give 640 fps and shoot to the sights at 25 yards with 2.5 grains of Bullseye. In top-break Enfields and Webleys don't exceed 2.2 grains of Bullseye for about 600 fps.

The 187H bullet has a long parallel-sized full-diameter nose section above the crimp groove, which must be sized to fit the cylinder throats and so-loaded is the most accurate, but loads are then specific to one gun.

The nose of the 190T is tapered and can be shot as-cast and unsized in most revolvers, including my 1937 Colt, S&W Model 32-1 Terrier and India Model Ruger. Aussie Victory shoots it pretty well too, as you can see on the target below.

Attachment 257490Attachment 257491Attachment 257492

If you don't cast your own bullets the soft-swaged .358" diameter 148-grain HBWC bullets shoot well seated to 1.20" OAL in .38 S&W brass with 2.5 grains of Bullseye or TiteGroup, but will shoot low unless you carefully dress about 0.05" off the top of the front sight. Depending upon your grip and recoil lighter bullets may shoot off a bit for windage, but a gunsmith or anyone skilled in use of a babbit bar can easily turn the barrel a wee bit to correct that. But I would find a load which is accurate in your gun before fooling with the sights!

[silhouette_shooter]

Okay and thank you for that info . . . I have two Accurate molds and like them, I shoot wheelweights and add a little tin and it looks like I'll have to get an Accurate mold, or a Lyman if they make one, I do like the idea of shooting heavier bullets, love those Accurate molds but they are pricey. Then a 40.00 sizing die from Magma, guess I'll sell some stuff.

I have two .38 S&W Victory Models, one British marked and the other Australian.

Cylinder throats of both guns are .362" and barrels slug .359". Factory .38 S&W ammunition of all common brands, Winchester, Remington and Fiocchi is loaded with 146-grain bullets which in my revolvers shoot low right. Starline brass is the best. In my guns Accurate 36-187H or 36-190T tumbled in Lee Liquid Alox and loaded as-cast and unsized at .361" diameter in 1:30 tin-lead from Roto Metals give 640 fps and shoot to the sights at 25 yards with 2.5 grains of Bullseye. In top-break Enfields and Webleys don't exceed 2.2 grains of Bullseye for about 600 fps.

The 187H bullet has a long parallel-sized full-diameter nose section above the crimp groove, which must be sized to fit the cylinder throats and so-loaded is the most accurate, but loads are then specific to one gun.

The nose of the 190T is tapered and can be shot as-cast and unsized in most revolvers, including my 1937 Colt, S&W Model 32-1 Terrier and India Model Ruger. Aussie Victory shoots it pretty well too, as you can see on the target below.

Attachment 257490Attachment 257491Attachment 257492

If you don't cast your own bullets the soft-swaged .358" diameter 148-grain HBWC bullets shoot well seated to 1.20" OAL in .38 S&W brass with 2.5 grains of Bullseye or TiteGroup, but will shoot low unless you carefully dress about 0.05" off the top of the front sight. Depending upon your grip and recoil lighter bullets may shoot off a bit for windage, but a gunsmith or anyone skilled in use of a babbit bar can easily turn the barrel a wee bit to correct that. But I would find a load which is accurate in your gun before fooling with the sights!

[Outpost75]

You don't need a custom size die. Just get a mold which casts the correct diameter in your alloy and use Lee Liquid Alox or LSStuff. 600 fps loads don't need much lube.

[Ilwil]

I had a very nice Victory, .380, with "Osterreich Politzei" post war markings. I handload, but I could never get that thing to shoot to point-of-aim, trying all sorts of cast .357 bullets and powders. I even paid for some jacketed ,380 bullets, with no luck. I finally traded it at a gun show for a nearly pristine .50-70 infantry trapdoor complete with original sling!

[Petander]

A very interesting revolver.

Great info,Outpost,thank you.

[Bigslug]

Okay and thank you for that info . . . I have two Accurate molds and like them, I shoot wheelweights and add a little tin and it looks like I'll have to get an Accurate mold, or a Lyman if they make one, I do like the idea of shooting heavier bullets, love those Accurate molds but they are pricey. Then a 40.00 sizing die from Magma, guess I'll sell some stuff.

A little less pricey than the Accurates, though not custom to order: https://noebulletmolds.com/site/prod.../363-204-rn-w1

That's a clone of the British MKI 200 grain pill. They currently still have a couple three-cavity solids in stock. Not quite the striking effect of Outpost's flat noses, but they do have a certain air of authenticity. They also have a few hollowpoint versions that turn this into a flat nose when you change the pins.

[JoeJames]

I agree with the post about 148 grain soft lead HBWC's. That's what I have been loading for the 38/200.

[jimb16]

I used to have one. I loaded powder coated unsized 148 gr cast RN bullets in the .38 S&W cases. Worked just fine.

[Boogieman]

,358 dia, bullets powder coated should work unsized

[JoeJames]

I've been looking at the local shows for a decent S&W Victory in 38 S&W (38/200), but most I have seen have had the chamber throats bored through for 38 Special. While I know that one can certainly shoot 38 S&W's in them, I assume that the increased throat diameter may effect accuracy. Therefore I am still looking for one that has not been reamed out.

[Outpost75]

I've been looking at the local shows for a decent S&W Victory in 38 S&W (38/200), but most I have seen have had the chamber throats bored through for 38 Special. While I know that one can certainly shoot 38 S&W's in them, I assume that the increased throat diameter may effect accuracy. Therefore I am still looking for one that has not been reamed out.

The rechambered ones don't work very well in either caliber. .38 Special fired in the large chambers comes out looking 3 months pregnant and case life is poor. Accuracy is not good firing .358 bullets through the typical .362-.363 cylinder throats. Firing .38 S&W ammo the increased bullet jump firing in the lengthened, rechambered cylinder accuracy is poor and there is substantial velocity loss. Best is to fit a replacement original cylinder which is correct for the caliber, which you can find for about $50 on GuynBroker or Numrich. Restoring the gun to its original .38 S&W caliber restores most of its collector value.

The .38 S&W round is effective on small game, accurate when properly loaded, pleasant to shoot, and economical to load. Starline brass in that caliber is excellent and affordable. Both Accurate and NOE make correct molds for the caliber.

[curioushooter]

Very neat revolver and I like that bullet design a great deal except for the bevel base. I guess you have a SAECO sizer?

I have been overall impressed by very heavy for caliber bullets in the 38 special and I figure that would apply here as well.

[Outpost75]

Very neat revolver and I like that bullet design a great deal except for the bevel base. I guess you have a SAECO sizer?

I have been overall impressed by very heavy for caliber bullets in the 38 special and I figure that would apply here as well.

You can order the mold from Accurate without the bevel base, if you prefer. I shoot as-cast and unsized with Lee Liquid Alox or LSStuff 45-45-20 so the bevel isn't an issue. I happen to prefer it as it loads easier and reduces cupping or finning of the base when a larger bullet which fits the cylinder throats is extruded into a smaller groove diameter barrel. The slight bevel no longer exists by the time the bullet exits the bore.

[JoeJames]

The rechambered ones don't work very well in either caliber. .38 Special fired in the large chambers comes out looking 3 months pregnant and case life is poor. Accuracy is not good firing .358 bullets through the typical .362-.363 cylinder throats. Firing .38 S&W ammo the increased bullet jump firing in the lengthened, rechambered cylinder accuracy is poor and there is substantial velocity loss. Best is to fit a replacement original cylinder which is correct for the caliber, which you can find for about $50 on GuynBroker or Numrich. Restoring the gun to its original .38 S&W caliber restores most of its collector value.

The .38 S&W round is effective on small game, accurate when properly loaded, pleasant to shoot, and economical to load. Starline brass in that caliber is excellent and affordable. Both Accurate and NOE make correct molds for the caliber.

Thanks for the comment. That is exactly what I assumed on the reamed ones - poor accuracy in 38 S&W due to increased chamber throat size. Not so much the chamber length because that was the length it started out as, but chamber throat size certainly appears to be a problem. Not aware new cylinders were out there and so reasonable in price. BTW I got a deal on 38S&W dies and brass from one of the other members on here.

[Outpost75]

Thanks for the comment. That is exactly what I assumed on the reamed ones - poor accuracy in 38 S&W due to increased chamber throat size. Not so much the chamber length because that was the length it started out as, but chamber throat size certainly appears to be a problem. Not aware new cylinders were out there and so reasonable in price. BTW I got a deal on 38S&W dies and brass from one of the other members on here.

Not "new" cylinders, but pre-1957 S&W K-frame cylinders are common and you can find used serviceable .38 S&W Victory cylinders fairly easily. In most cases you can keep the original crane assy. and disassemble the cylinder and swap parts around. Here is a current listing:

http://https://www.gunbroker.com/item/858795666

[smkummer]

Just an observation on my part. I have a WW2 victory 38 special S&W. It was always chambered for 38 special and Remington 38 S&W blanks fit and fired. I then tried factory loaded 38 S&W Remington ammo and 3 of the 6 chambers would accept the cartridges with some pushing. None of my 38 special colts would even let the cartridges start in, even the blanks.

[Outpost75]

Just an observation on my part. I have a WW2 victory 38 special S&W. It was always chambered for 38 special and Remington 38 S&W blanks fit and fired. I then tried factory loaded 38 S&W Remington ammo and 3 of the 6 chambers would accept the cartridges with some pushing. None of my 38 special colts would even let the cartridges start in, even the blanks.

My experience has been that R-P headstamped Remington .38 S&W brass has a smaller base diameter than Winchester, Fiocchi, or older WRA, Kynoch, Peters or Rem-UMC. My S&W Model 37-1, my Model 10-5, my Model 28 Highway Patrolman and both Model 12-2s will accept and fire .38 S&W factory Remington loads, but with some loss of accuracy.

Attachment 257949Attachment 257950Attachment 257948

[JoeJames]

Yup, I did have to use a different shell holder when reloading some 38S&W Brass; seems like it was S&B brass.

[silhouette_shooter]

I have two .38 S&W Victory Models, one British marked and the other Australian.

Cylinder throats of both guns are .362" and barrels slug .359". Factory .38 S&W ammunition of all common brands, Winchester, Remington and Fiocchi is loaded with 146-grain bullets which in my revolvers shoot low right. Starline brass is the best. In my guns Accurate 36-187H or 36-190T tumbled in Lee Liquid Alox and loaded as-cast and unsized at .361" diameter in 1:30 tin-lead from Roto Metals give 640 fps and shoot to the sights at 25 yards with 2.5 grains of Bullseye. In top-break Enfields and Webleys don't exceed 2.2 grains of Bullseye for about 600 fps.

The 187H bullet has a long parallel-sized full-diameter nose section above the crimp groove, which must be sized to fit the cylinder throats and so-loaded is the most accurate, but loads are then specific to one gun.

The nose of the 190T is tapered and can be shot as-cast and unsized in most revolvers, including my 1937 Colt, S&W Model 32-1 Terrier and India Model Ruger. Aussie Victory shoots it pretty well too, as you can see on the target below.

Attachment 257490Attachment 257491Attachment 257492

If you don't cast your own bullets the soft-swaged .358" diameter 148-grain HBWC bullets shoot well seated to 1.20" OAL in .38 S&W brass with 2.5 grains of Bullseye or TiteGroup, but will shoot low unless you carefully dress about 0.05" off the top of the front sight. Depending upon your grip and recoil lighter bullets may shoot off a bit for windage, but a gunsmith or anyone skilled in use of a babbit bar can easily turn the barrel a wee bit to correct that. But I would find a load which is accurate in your gun before fooling with the sights!

Well, I ordered a mold from Accurate Molds last night, a 160 gr. Then I slept on it and this morning e-mailed Tom and changed it to the Accurate version of the Lyman 358477 which is a 150 grain mold. My Victory shoots almost exactly to p.o.a. with 150 grain bullets. Only problem is that the throats are .363-.364 and the bore is
.362-.363 so I specified a .364 mold. Sure hope Tom reads my e-mail about the change. I have a couple of his molds and am very happy with them.