waiting for final outcome, its fun trying to fix stuff you cant see, hear, or test hands on. Sometimes the replies are stuff that never would have occurred to me/how come I haven't seen that? To just wild guesses that are totally vague, always interesting.
I got a code yesterday. PO303 misfire.
yup I agree. that's about the speed when most torque convertors lock and unlock and when you put it in drive instead of od the convertor doesn't lock.Originally Posted by colt38sp
I realize you've gotten a lot of shade tree mechanics here offering advice some have absolutely no idea and some have some experience. Most have offered the advice to blanket change all the coil packs and I guess they believe money grows on trees but I don't. There are several different grades of parts I know because I have purchased everything from GM/Delco to the plain white paper or cardboard box with parts inside. Sure, in a perfect world where money grows on trees it would be nice to replace ALL the coil packs and simply throw parts at it in the hope that the problem simply won't come back. I guess if you have the money to just throw around then replace them at a cost of around $800 or so for the "GOOD" parts. Now, someone is going to chime in after I post this and tell you that oh no you can get these on line for $50-100 for a set of eight. Been there done that and all it did was make me work harder replacing coil packs in 3 to 6 months as the cheap ones simply don't hold up. This is kinda like buying a wheel bearing hub assembly from GM for $450 verses buying a white box unit 2for $70. The white box unit surely is priced attractively but for some odd reason goes out the first time you go thru a water puddle or a snow drift. You get what you pay for period. You do what you want but for my experience since I've tried it all I'll buy the expensive coil pack and replace it once verses buying the cheap set and replacing two or three a few months down the line. There is really no point (my opinion here) of replacing coil packs that don't have a problem. As I mentioned also on the Ford product with that engine you will sooner or later replace two coil packs the result usually of the AC condensation dripping on them. But hey what do I know? I had to drive Ford Vans for 26 years and I could publish a book on every single engine flaw and malfunction your going to see on one. Nuff said.
From Lloyd Smale
yup I agree. that's about the speed when most torque convertors lock and unlock and when you put it in drive instead of od the convertor doesn't lock.
Its a hard problem to find since the converter problem manifests itself as a type of miss when it tries to lock up and there is a problem with the torque converter. Like I mentioned in a prior post I went thru this in a number of Ford F250 vans and personally saw the converters and bearings that were taken out of the transmissions of the vehicles I drove. At the time I advocated the process of pumping new fluid in the tranny to thoroughly clean out the torque converter and transmission internals. Several times I snuck this past the boss and got it done to my vehicle and I was able to get over 250K miles out of the transmission before it needed rebuilt. The last tranny I got only 120K out of it without the tranny flush.
How big a job is it to replace the torque converter? I'm looking ahead in case it still acts up after I have the coil changed. With my l luck it'll be the coil(s) and the converter.
How big a job to replace the torque converter? Its not a big job it requires that you can jack the car up borrow a transmission jack or floor jack for the transmission unbolt the transmission, drive shaft, necessary transmission lines and cables harness and so forth. The problem lies in the fact that there is going to be some metallic debris from the wear in the converter. This will be circulated thru the transmission so a complete flush would be the minimum I would suggest besides a new torque converter. The best solution would be a rebuild of the tranny if needed or possibly a trade for a rebuilt reconditioned transmission.
Torque converter swap not too bad once you have the trans pulled out. Pretty substantial job. Replace the #3 coil and I think you will be good.
If you still have the problem after changing the coil since it sounds like that's what you are going to do, replace the fluid in the trans before putting a converter in. Again trying to diag it over the internet is always a guessing game but I have been turning wrenches professionally for over thirty years so I'm not just pulling something out of the air here.
Instead of buying new coil packs, just buy the rebuild kits. The rebuild kits only cost about $5-6 each. that replaces the rubber boot and the wire spring that makes the connection to the spark plug. Easy job to do and not that cost prohibitive.
Replacing a torque converter is simple, ONCE you have the transmission out of the car. Getting the transmission out of the car is not simple.
I am glad you found the issue I had a 2009 Grand Marquis with a coil that missed in wet weather it never showed except my fuel economy went south I had two dealers look at it they found nothing One warm day I had enough and drove it until warm then spayed the running engine down with a hose the engine did not stutter but driving around the block (10.25 miles) I went from 26 to 18 MPG . I said the heck with it and sprayed all the wires and boots with silicone and never had the trouble again ( I did repeat it annually).
At 94,000 miles I changed the plugs and found where water was getting under a coil into the area of the spark plug. I sealed everything good with dielectric grease sold the car shortly after that .
We replaced the Mercury with a 2017 Chevy Equinox 4 cylinder it got poorer fuel economy then the big Mercury !
The equinox was also a bit small for us to travel in so we now have a 2019 Ford Flex AWD it still does not do as well on gas as the Grand Marquis but seems a bit faster in acceleration. The 3.5 V-6 also has enough torque so it does not down shift often on hills .
When I think back on all the **** I learned in high school it's a wonder I can think at all ! And then my lack of education hasn't hurt me none I can read the writing on the wall.
If their is metaal in the trany pan, changing the fluid will not work. The metal is what is holding it together.
Ever heard of someone changing their trany fluid and the trany goes out a mointh later? This is why.
The plug wires break down with time and heat, seems no one changes them anymore.
Look at them in the dark with the engine running you may be surprised at what you see.
Very seldom is this the answer to the problem. The coil windings go open for a split second and then close again. The windings heat and cool open and close and this causes the miss.
If you have to replace the converter the ONLY proper way to change the fluid is to POWER FLUSH. You hook it up to the machine and it basically pumps the old out and the new in. Depending on the machine they can also filter the fluid. The last power flush I had done cost $100 and added another 100K+ miles to the life of the tranny. My boss was one of those that listened to the old wives tale that if you change the tranny fluid the tranny will die soon after. Its kind of funny because about a month after I had the tranny power flushed the bosses Chevy suburban developed a tranny problem and he took it to the chevy garage and they did a power flush on his tranny but that was ok because it was his company vehicle.
Well it was the answer to my problem because it cured my problems that appeared to be identical to the OP situation.
The OPs problem based on the symptoms is coil break down not a boot/moisture problem from what I have read. Based on my over 45 years of playing with autos I would say that moisture problems not always but for the most part will slowly change in the intensity of the miss with run time.
Last edited by 6bg6ga; 02-29-2020 at 08:48 AM.
Here's an update. My mechanic replaced #2 and #3 coils (both showed on the scan). He replaced all the plugs and wires (no charge - they were done a year ago so he put it through on a warranty). He checked all the other coils with a known good coil (I had #4 done last year). The car runs much better, but...it still bucks at 40 MPH unless you shut the OD off to get past that speed. So, he ordered a torque converter that will be in Monday. There are no misfires now showing up on any scan (even in Mode 6). Hopefully the torque converter will be the answer.
So far, I'm into the repairs for $300 (including the converter). That's not bad, especially if it's fixed.
I remember mentioning there were two coil packs that always need replaced on the Ford. With my experience with the Ford torque converters I guessed that one also. When you engage the OD at around 60-70 mph climb a hill and you will get a slight bucking activity. Quick turn off the OD and the activity will cease. The hill should be enough to stress the engine to promote a miss. Try out what I mentioned and I'm sure it will follow the same symptoms with the perceived miss that will clear when the OD is turned off.
FWIW, we had the same symptom happen in our crown vic. Mechanic replaced the trans filter and the problem went away.
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