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Thread: Motion of Patched Round Ball in Flight

  1. #21
    Boolit Master
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    Patched, Round Ball, in a Smooth Bore Musket -

    Swaged Ball, verses Cast; on leaving the Muzzle - if a Cast Ball has any irregularity where the Sprue had been, that small surface irregularity would induce some kind of rotational motion.

  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Mine go straight out the muzzle and then veer sharply off target, I swear it's not MY fault.

  3. #23
    Boolit Buddy
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    Rolls down the barrel.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    if your casting balls with a sprue id roll them a handful at a time between glass or metal plates to round the area. sprue isnt gonna be good for accuracy no matter what way its loaded.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dapaki View Post

    Rolls down the barrel.
    There is no way a patched round ball is going to roll down the barrel. A bare ball, maybe.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE View Post
    Iím not looking at shooting beyond fifty yards.

    Next question would be where you place the sprue. If it is on top, wind force could tend to start turning it and maybe even spinning it. If this spin would help fine, but if not it may be best to put the sprue on the bottom, or cut it off completely.
    Greg
    I always load sprue on top (at the front) I think in Sam Fadalas book there was some testing done with deformed (stamped a big X in it from memory) ball and his test showed up, didnt matter but on the bottom, messed up accuracy. (that would be in a rifled barrel though)

    Anyhow that shotgun I played with was a rough cast ball from a vintage mold - with the long sprue (kettleball style) we cut the sprue off with a pair of electricians sidecutters and loaded sprue up and it was fine.
    I use LEE roundball molds these days, anytime I can. They cut the sprue neat to the ball radius, tumble those LEE balls in a canvas bag with a bit of graphite powder in and you can load em any whichway you like - they shoot as good as swaged ball for me.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE View Post
    Iím not looking at shooting beyond fifty yards.

    Next question would be where you place the sprue. If it is on top, wind force could tend to start turning it and maybe even spinning it. If this spin would help fine, but if not it may be best to put the sprue on the bottom, or cut it off completely.
    Greg
    I always load sprue on top (at the front) I think in Sam Fadalas book there was some testing done with deformed (stamped a big X in it from memory) ball and his test showed up didnt matter, but on the bottom, messed up accuracy. (that would be in a rifled barrel though)

    Anyhow that shotgun I played with was a rough cast ball from a vintage mold - with the long sprue (kettleball style) we cut the sprue off with a pair of electricians sidecutters and loaded sprue up and it was fine.
    I use LEE roundball molds these days, anytime I can. They cut the sprue neat to the ball radius, tumble those LEE balls in a canvas bag with a bit of graphite powder in and you can load em any whichway you like - they shoot as good as swaged ball for me.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master

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    Coming out of a smooth bore,
    I'd think it would fly about the same, only faster and more accurate, than if you shot the same round ball out of a sling shot.
    It wasn't playing the blame game, finding fault, and complaining about every little thing that made America great.
    It was God, guns, and guts.

  9. #29
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    If you have a good ball, they don't rotate from a smooth bore. Don't worry about removing the sprue nub. Just have them pointed towards the target.
    If you have the slightest interior inconsistency such as a void in the ball, they can go off path quite a bit. I weigh my competition balls, to eliminate the possibility. The biggest challenge to smooth bore accuracy is the lack of a rear sight. I won three world smooth bore championships over the years, and even though old and blind, can still come out in the top end of a shooting competition on woods walks against rifles.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


  10. #30
    Boolit Grand Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    Paint a few of the balls 1/2 white and 1/2 black. With the Evening Sun at your back, have an observer off to your side away from the cloud of black powder smoke watch the balls to see if they spin. That is if you have nothing better to do!

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  11. #31
    Boolit Buddy
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    I had nothing better to do than look these videos up for you:
    https://youtu.be/ZlXiSX_XG9c

  12. #32

  13. #33
    Boolit Grand Master

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    So far the best results I've had from smoothbore cartridge shotgun is with 0.662" RB's cloth patched into a shotcup already in a hull (much as Indian Joe says) and with 0.735" RB's loaded over hard card wad column. Both those are tight fit to bore and both shoot into 3" to 4" groups consistently at 50 yards. Not often under 3" and not often over 4". However, stretch it out another 15 or 20 yards and groups open up considerably.

    I load sprue down but I'm betting by 30 or 40 yards the ball is starting to spin anyway and by 60 or 70 yards much more spin hence the "trombone" trajectory (knuckle ball).

    I'd expect about the same from patched round ball in a muzzleloading smoothbore.

    I think Waksupi would render an opinion of similar or maybe a bit better accuracy with well worked up smoothbore loads with patched round ball and a guy who is a good shot.

    Another bit of reading and right on "target" (no pun intended) as it is smoothbore muzzleloader this guy shoots:

    http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/SmoothboreLoads.html

    Its interesting that he is getting about the same level of accuracy that I do from modern smoothbore.

    Also, don't forget that if these big 'ol round balls are pushed hard they could be supersonic and using modern 12 ga. ballistics they will be dropping to transonic velocity at around 50 yards which is about where groups get noticeably larger with much increased distance. There is a lot of turbulence as the ball/slug drops through transonic velocity.

    A 12 or 20 ga. musket may not produce supersonic velocity which may result in somewhat better accuracy than a supersonic load due to less turbulence because of not passing through transonic velocity. Smaller bore muskets could certainly produce supersonic velocity and modern loads with RB's in cartridge guns can be supersonic. I think all my 12 ga. RB shooting has been supersonic though I have to admit I have not loaded subsonic round balls and shot to compare groups. I should do that!

    Again just my experience and opinions.

    Go get a mould and cast some RB's to patch! Give it a go then report back! Have some fun!

    Longbow

  14. #34
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    there are Many scenarios and factors involved with a smoothbore ball and the results can be anything from the ball "dancing" to different points of impact at varying distances ala "knuckle ball" (as i have proofed many times) to purty much straight and on the money mark (as ric has proofed many times). there are things to do for controlling consistency factors with a good ball, or things that will allow a bad ball to succumb to itself and not be consistent at all.
    "Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician." - Jeff Cooper

  15. #35
    Boolit Master



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    If you increase the powder change, would you get more or less spin? Maybe no difference?

  16. #36
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE View Post
    If you increase the powder change, would you get more or less spin? Maybe no difference?
    you ask questions that beg personal testing.
    "Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician." - Jeff Cooper

  17. #37
    Moderator Emeritus / Trusted loob groove dealer

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregLaROCHE View Post
    If you increase the powder change, would you get more or less spin? Maybe no difference?
    More speed, but there would be nothing to change the spin rate.
    The solid soft lead bullet is undoubtably the best and most satisfactory expanding bullet that has ever been designed. It invariably mushrooms perfectly, and never breaks up. With the metal base that is essential for velocities of 2000 f.s. and upwards to protect the naked base, these metal-based soft lead bullets are splendid.
    John Taylor - "African Rifles and Cartridges"

    Forget everything you know about loading jacketed bullets. This is a whole new ball game!


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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check