Titan ReloadingADvertise hereRepackboxMidSouth Shooters Supply
RotoMetals2Inline FabricationWidenersLee Precision

Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Powder Supply Chain.... be informed

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy 10mmShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    448

    Exclamation Powder Supply Chain.... be informed

    Everyone please review this for accuracy let me know if I've made any errors or need to add updates. Its kind of scary we only have three powder plants in North America, IMR Canada, Alliant Virginia, and St Marks Florida, and those 3 plants are owned by only two companys, General Dynamics, and ATK, both defense contractors. Also consider political impacts as we approach the November election. Everyone plan ahead, also I can only assume primer production is equally limited to a few companys.


    IMR powders are made in Canada, the plant is still owned by General Dynamics(General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems Canada), but the name “IMR” is licensed by Hodgdon now.

    St Marks Powder plant in FL still owned by General Dynamics produces all Winchester branded powders and some Hodgdon powders too, Hodgdon licenses the Winchester name for powders only. Olin Industries still owns and manufactures ammunition under the Winchester name.

    Alliant Techsytesms/ATK owns and manufactures Alliant (Hercules) powder, The Reloader series is made by Bofors in Sweden and imported, their shotgun and pistol powders can be made in Radford Virginia under the name New River Energetics Plant

    Western Powders, Accurate Arms, ball powders are made in Herstal Belgium and some Ramshot powders also, all repackaged in Montana, rumor has it some of the Accurate Arms powders are made at St Marks. Looks like based on Accurate Powder recall of 2495 from 2016, its appears to have been made at GD-OTS/IMR

    Thales Group a French government owned company owns Thales Australia formerly ADI in Australia makes all of Hodgdon’s extruded powders, and sell them under the ADI name as well.

    Keep in mind there are NO CONUS manufactures of extruded powders, that’s why they are imported from IMR Canada, or ADI/Thales Australia

    Hodgdon does make Pryodex,777, White Hot, in Kansas (the ONLY powders that they actually manufacture).

    Keep in mind Hodgdon is privately owned company, whereas, Olin, ATK, General Dynamics are all publicly traded. Western Powders is also privately owned, ADI/Thales government controlled

    Some interesting random facts:

    ATK is the current contract operator of the Lake City Arsenal, the facility is still whole owned by the US Govt, in the past Olin and Remington have run the arsenal.

    It’s confusing that ATK who is a very large defense contractor, and they own the Federal name, as well as CCI, and Speer and American Eagle and Alliant Powder, RCBS but supposedly all these are subsidiaries of Vista outdoors, looks like more accounting strategy. End of the day... they are ATK companies.
    μολών λαβέ


  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    over the hill, out in the woods and far away
    Posts
    7,834
    Also alarming is that Olin brass is the sole US source for first-draw cups used to make cartridge cases. Most of their product goes to DoD in replacing depleted war reserve stocks .

    During the Vietnam war Scovill and Anaconda were also in the cup business, but no more. Many of the brass cups used and all of the steel cartridge cases used in sporting ammunition manufacture come from off-shore, Korea, China, Russia, Hungary, Italy, Belgium.
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Way up in the Cascades
    Posts
    3,332
    Thank you for posting this information, 10mmShooter. I've seen some of the info here and there, but never all together in one place.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master Idz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    656
    If one was paranoid you could speculate that the liberal push to ban lead bullets (eliminates casting your own), the push towards non-reloadable plastic, aluminum,and steel cases, along with onerous regulations on powder suppliers that drive them out of business is all part of a plot to disarm U.S. citizens. Or is just a coincidence?

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    over the hill, out in the woods and far away
    Posts
    7,834
    Quote Originally Posted by Idz View Post
    If one was paranoid you could speculate that the liberal push to ban lead bullets (eliminates casting your own), the push towards non-reloadable plastic, aluminum,and steel cases, along with onerous regulations on powder suppliers that drive them out of business is all part of a plot to disarm U.S. citizens. Or is just a coincidence?
    No coincidence. Intent is to destroy our defense mobilization base, disarm the citizenry, make us dependent upon pharmaceuticals made offshore and also make our industries dependent upon imported raw materials and machinery, then use out own corrupt political system to use environmental regs to destroy our economy, use biowar, increased crime and implementation of a totalitarian state to jail or kill off the dissenters and turn the remaining dependent welfare class into slaves.

    Look at what the Democrat candidates are all planning. Everything is directly out of Stalin's playbook.
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    South Jersey
    Posts
    5,422
    Let me add the black powder story line. There are only 3 BP manufacturers left in world selling to the retail market:

    * Goex is owned Hodgdon and the only US manufactured powder in Minden, Louisiana. Hodgdon scooped up the company because there is a Federal Law that states any military ammunition using black powder... it has to be made in the US
    * Swiss ... The Aubonne Black Powder Mill (Swiss Black Powder Factory) was founded in 1853
    * Schuetzen ... Sold by Graf's, Made in Germany manufactured by WANO Schwarzpulver GmbH and is specifically designed for the United States Market
    * KIK, made in Slovenia. The last shipment to the US was in 2010 and I sure miss it because it is great powder, equal to Swiss
    Regards
    John

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,026
    Yes Kikk quit the BP business.
    QUIS CUSTODIET IPSOS CUSTODES?

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    1,278
    Czech ammo manufacturer Selliet & Bellot has long said in their ads that the do make ammo for Some of the ammunition companies when the demand is high. Either read or heard that Winchester is one of these countries. Geco either German or Swiss has ammo made for them by MFS in Hungary under the Geco label. MFS brass was always scrap bucket quality so we'd just pick it up to fill the scrap buckets.And I think Great Britian had a whole and thriving ammunition industry. Think they had a complete powder making facility on Scotland. Now as far as I know GB only has Kynoch and all the rest is gone.And because of all this they have to outsource most if not all of their ammo.If this is in any way incorrect, please set me straight. I still cannot figure out why the Queen Elizabeth their newest carrier is not nuke powered. So much room just for the fossile fuel engines. And with the ski jump fully loaded plains can't take off. And to through was reading in the Navy News that they are missing warm bodies to fill existing sea billits for ships at sea.Something on the order of 2800 unfilled billits.Frank

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    brisbane ,qld,australia
    Posts
    989
    Black powder is used for shell primers ,so as said must be made in the US.......There must be some manufacturer of SA ammo in UK,for the military.....In Oz ,just about everything is outsourced to the French Thales Thomson multinational....These guys are even making the next lot of submarines .....no one expects them to actually work,just a money pit to keep a few unions happy.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master

    TCLouis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Middle TN
    Posts
    4,203
    Might be correct to say that Western/Accurate does not make any powder.
    They buy powders and package them for sale.
    I think they also use Lovex powders.
    Last edited by TCLouis; 02-25-2020 at 06:11 PM. Reason: change word
    Nothing is impossible for the person that does not have to do it.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

    alamogunr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    3,768
    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    Also alarming is that Olin brass is the sole US source for first-draw cups used to make cartridge cases. Most of their product goes to DoD in replacing depleted war reserve stocks .

    During the Vietnam war Scovill and Anaconda were also in the cup business, but no more. Many of the brass cups used and all of the steel cartridge cases used in sporting ammunition manufacture come from off-shore, Korea, China, Russia, Hungary, Italy, Belgium.
    Does that include Starline as a customer for Olin cups?
    John
    W.TN

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    over the hill, out in the woods and far away
    Posts
    7,834
    Quote Originally Posted by alamogunr View Post
    Does that include Starline as a customer for Olin cups?
    Most likely, but you would have to ask Bob Hayden to be sure.
    The ENEMY is listening.
    HE wants to know what YOU know.
    Keep it to yourself.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master Burnt Fingers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Tejas
    Posts
    649
    I'm pretty sure Starline does everything in house.
    NRA Benefactor.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    637
    It behooves us all to be stockpiled as S.O.P. and when the drought hits we can set back and smile at the grasshoppers. Be continually buying even in small quantities and it will add up.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy


    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Noblesville, Indiana
    Posts
    166
    For the first time in my life I ordered powder and got it delivered via Fed Ex. My local supplier usually does a fine job, but was out of the powder I load for trap shooting (generally shoot a couple hundred shells per week). If my local guy gets some in, so much the better. Nothing wrong with having too much.......

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
    DonMountain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Mid-Missouri
    Posts
    1,082
    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    Also alarming is that Olin brass is the sole US source for first-draw cups used to make cartridge cases. Most of their product goes to DoD in replacing depleted war reserve stocks .

    During the Vietnam war Scovill and Anaconda were also in the cup business, but no more. Many of the brass cups used and all of the steel cartridge cases used in sporting ammunition manufacture come from off-shore, Korea, China, Russia, Hungary, Italy, Belgium.
    This is all "internet speak" rubbish. And not true. Probably put on here by a Democrat. I took a tour through the Star-Line Company factory in Sedalia, Missouri recently and all of their "cups" are punched out in-house from strips of brass material. After seeing that part of the operation, its plain to see that this punching operation is the simplest and easiest part of making a cartridge case. The forming operations are far more complex. So I can't even imagine anybody making cartridge cases would purchase this part from someone else.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master brassrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    conn.
    Posts
    668
    ......

  18. #18
    Boolit Grand Master


    jonp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Planet Reality
    Posts
    6,215
    Quote Originally Posted by DonMountain View Post
    This is all "internet speak" rubbish. And not true. Probably put on here by a Democrat. I took a tour through the Star-Line Company factory in Sedalia, Missouri recently and all of their "cups" are punched out in-house from strips of brass material. After seeing that part of the operation, its plain to see that this punching operation is the simplest and easiest part of making a cartridge case. The forming operations are far more complex. So I can't even imagine anybody making cartridge cases would purchase this part from someone else.
    I am become death. The destroyer of worlds

    We all do our duty when there is not cost to it, honor comes easier then. Sooner or later there comes a day in every man's life when it is not so easy, a day when he must choose and live with it for the rest of his days.

    The further society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it
    George Orwell

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check