Fitting a Lee Enfield magazine

[Idz]

I got a Long Branch Enfield No4 MkI* rifle with a odd magazine that didn't lock into the rifle. The magazine has side ribs running all the way to the bottom and all the extra hardware on the locking rib like the Mk1 mags however it also has 4's stamped on the mag. After some fiddling I determined the locking lug on the magazine was just slightly too long so I filed it off about 0.015" and now it locks in tightly and feeds dummy rounds without a problem.
Questions:
Did I receive a Mk1 SMLE mag with my No4 rifle?
No where could I find what 'fitting' a mag to an Enfield involved, did I do it right?
Is the Mk1 mag compatible with the No4 with this minor tweaking?

The exterior of the 1943 rifle is in pretty good shape but the 2-groove rifling looks pretty rough. The extractor spring had been replaced with a toothpick but MidwayUSA had a Wolf spring replacement that works great. The ladder sight requires some work but I'll try shooting it first to see how it feeds and fires. Its an interesting rifle for my collection that looks good even if it doesn't shoot.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I have seen the ribbed variation you're talking about, but had no trouble with it going into my No.4. If it fits now that you filed a bit off the locking lug-- well, success is what matters and you did it right. Actually, I don't know what else you could do. With the rifles being made at Long Branch, Savage, and 3 or 4 arsenals in Britain, there's bound to be a little variation among the millions made; and who knows how many manufacturers of magazines existed? I suppose that, like everything, somewhere there exists a procedure for fitting a magazine, but I've always found that 99% of the time they fit, and if they didn't fit it didn't take much to make them fit, as you discovered. Is the No.1 magazine compatible with the No. 4 rifle? It can be done, but takes a little surgery as you have to remove the spring below the lug, and on the few I've done I did have to then do some file work on the lug. But-- it can work. As for the ejector spring, it is one of the few weak points of the rifle. If you don't disassemble it they usually have a long life, but disassembly/reassembly is hard on them because of the great compression needed to get them in or out and they tend to be brittle and break near the "V". Once you get your sight problem resolved (used surplus sights and aftermarket sights are available ) I think that you'll find your rifle to be a good shooter. Here's the difference between the No.1 and No.4 magazines.


DG

[Idz]

My mag looks like the one on the right with all the extra bits on the locking rib which I assume is the No1. Numrich has several sight versions that I've looked at and I have some on order if they ever get running again.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Well, there's a surprise! The one on the right is indeed a No.1 magazine. You should have one like the example on the left. So, apparently you converted a No.1 to fit a No.4 rifle. On the ones I have done I removed everything south of the locking lug. But, as I said, things can vary in measurements, so if all you had to do was file the lug a bit that's good, because the other stuff below the lug provides tightness and a little tension to firmly hold the mag in place. I had to remove it on mine to get the mag to fit into the rifle, and then file some off the lug to get it to lock. If you look closely at the pictures you can see where the mag on the right's lug (No. 1) appears a bit longer than the one on the left. On the mag. for the No. 4 (left) the spring of the No. 1's mag was replaced with two little stamped ridges. I'm glad it worked out for you. Although magazines are meant to remain in the rifle for the most part, and to be loaded from the top with 5 rd. stripper clips, for us civilians it can be handy to have one or two extra magazines to just load into the rifle as needed. Not to mention that the strippers are getting hard to find. I used to work on these rifles quite a bit, and own several, but can't seem to remember right now if a magazine swap will work the other way, No.4 to No.1. It might not, as the locking lug might be a bit short and make the mag loose-- I'm sure I tried it a one time or another, but just don't recall.

[Idz]

It was pretty easy to get it to fit. I blackened the locking rib with a sharpie pen and inserted it several times to see how much material needed to be removed, filed it down a bit and repeated until it firmly locked in place with a tap of a rubber mallet. I went out to the range and everything fed and fired perfectly with PPU 150gr SP ammo. Barrel is looking a lot better after firing a dozen rounds through it.

[303Guy]

Don't worry about the rough rifling. My Longbranch has rough rifling and it shoots great.

This rough


I did fire-lap it with two or three shots to round the rough edges. My loading technique involves lubing the bullet base on the boat tail and the bore never copper fouls. I tried it with cast and not so good. I gave up because I didn't get instant success plus the fact that it's a great jacketed shooter and I have other 303's for cast and paper patch. It also carries well and is a good fit for me. It's my go to hunting rifle.

[Texas by God]

Lee Enfield magazine knowledge acquired here today. I've wondered about this before; thanks for sharing.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[W.R.Buchanan]

FYI guys I jsut happen to make at really nice Front Sight Adjustment Tool for the #4 Mk1 available at www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

Randy

[303Guy]

I remember when you were developing that sight adjuster.

I want to 'invent' a sight system for a SMLE that incorporates a windage adjustment charger bridge mounted rear sight and an elevation adjustable front sight. That should be quite easy.

[W.R.Buchanan]

303: There are 9 different height Front Sights for #4 Mk1 and variants. They are made in .015 increments which relates to 2 MOA Elevation Change for each step.

They are used to Establish the Mechanical Zero for the Ladder Rear Sight. IE: So that it's 200 yard hash mark on the ladder coincides with a 200 yard zero using standard issue 150 gr Ball Ammo... When that 200 yard zero comes in, then all of the Elevation Marks on the Ladder should work as advertised and can theoretically yield hits out to 1200 yards..

My tool is for Drifting the Front Sight for Initial Windage Correction in a predictable way.

The sight radius on a #4 Mk1 is 32". As such .008=1 MOA. My sight tool uses 1/4-28 screws for the adjustments and those are .036 per turn or .006 for one flat or 1/6 turn = 3/4 MOA. 2 flats = 1.5 MOA and this tool yields virtually perfect and completely predictable results. Just follow my instructions!

Once set with a correct Height/Elevation Front Sight and it is correctly placed side to side,,, the gun will be sighted in dead on for that ammo at 200 yards and can be corrected for different ranges by simply cranking up the rear ladder sight to the desired range, taking care to ALWAYS return the ladder to it's 200 yard "Mechanical Zero" when done shooting.

One thing to understand, and this is true for all Rifles, is that the Iron Sights are all "Calibrated for a Specific Ammo" which yields a specific Trajectory. The Elevation Offsets within the sight itself are marked for a Specific Trajectory but only with that ammo.

Example: The steps on the Sight Elevator on a Winchester 1894 Carbine are in 50 yard steps when using Winchester 150 or 170 gr ammo.

Trajectory is contingent on Bullet Velocity and the Bullet's Ballistic Coefficient (how efficiently it flies.) If you change anything, you get to start over and re-calibrate the rear sight! Because you have changed the trajectory !

During WW2 when the Govt bought gun powder to use in M2 Ball Ammo Manufacture, each lot of powder produced slightly different pressures, so the load volume of powder was tweaked so as to yield the same velocity for the ammo being loaded. This is why you see load variations from 45-49 gr of IMR 4895 used in loading M2 Ball Ammo for Garand Rifles. The bullets were all the same so the intention was to keep the velocity of any lot of ammo as close as possible to all other lots so that the Rear Sights on Garand Rifles would yield predictable elevation changes when necessary. Point being if you change anything you get to start over which you don't want to do in the middle of a WAR! I might add that this Philosophy was not unique to our military. It was common place thru out the world for all Military's. Everyone figured this out a long time ago.

This is why I always recommend sighting in the gun with a Readily Available Factory Loaded Ammunition, with the Highest Velocity to be used in that gun and establishing the "Mechanical Zero" with that Ammo. That way all other slower ammo will only require a Positive Elevation Change to the rear sight which can be recorded and referenced any time you shoot that ammo again, with the certainty that you can get hits right out of the box.

This way you always know where the gun will shoot, instead of chasing the sights all over and not hitting anything cuz you have no idea where you are or were. In other words your gun was NOT "Well Regulated" or simply not properly sighted in!

Hope this helps someone..

Randy

[tbx-4]

"a 200 yard zero using standard issue 150 gr Ball Ammo..."

Isn't standard MkVII ammo 174 gr? (or am I just being picky?)

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I want to 'invent' a sight system for a SMLE that incorporates a windage adjustment charger bridge mounted rear sight and an elevation adjustable front sight. That should be quite easy.

Hmmm...coincidentally, the problem I'm currently trying to resolve. I have 4 very nice SMLE (No.1) sporters made over a number of years gone by. I am working on my 5th, and no doubt last. All of the previous 4 have Williams Guide barrel mounted rear sights, but I wanted an adjustable peep on the current project. I want to mount it on the left side. The only adjustable rear peep, currently manufactured, is by Williams and is meant to be mounted on the right side. Due to no luck at all in finding one for the left side I bought the Williams right side version. No where in their description that I have found does it state that the charger bridge must be removed for mounting, but that turns out to be the case. There is a small area between the charger bridge and bolt handle where one could mount it, but your knuckles would hit it when working the bolt. So, I'm kind of back to square one. I've considered just drilling a hole through the charger, threading it, and installing an aperture, but there would be no adjustment. Something that clamps onto the charger might work, and there are clamp on sights, but they all clamp side to side for a Weaver-type base, and this would seem to call for front to back clamping. I possibly could cut a slot in the bridge and install a WW II flip up sight, but there would only be two elevations and no in between adjustment. Currently thinking that I'll have to select a nice left mounted sight for some other rifle and make a custom adapter or alter the base in shape to fit.

[303Guy]

This is where I am thinking of a charger bridge mount windage adjustable peep or U notch with elevation adjust front sight. My idea is a piece made to fit in the charger that holds the peep. Actually, with care and effort one could make a rear sight to fit in the charger with both elevation and windage. My criteria being very low profile. Do I have the patience to make it though? And by hand? It can be done but I'm not talking about target sights. Just set and forget.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

If you do, take some photos!