What powder are you using for your 180s? The fastest I have load data for is about 1500 FPS from a 18-1/2” barrel. I’d be very interested in something like what are using. I just worry about loads that I can’t find data for.Originally Posted by boatbum101
I'm using H 110, 1550-1600 fps is what I'm getting with my 180 load. Tried Lil Gun it, was a little faster I think I remember, but not as accurate. My velocity was enough that I got full penetration.
Thanks. That’s what I got in my manuals. I figure if the 1200-1300 or so FPS from a revolver is good enough to take deer, then 1500+ would be more than enough. Like with any gun, though, you got to hit em in the vitals so the don’t run far away.
Bingo on both points
Lil' Gun will shoot 158 cast bullets over 2000 fps in a rifle. Check out some of the Brian Pearce articles in Handloader. Hodgdon's data is 18 grains and under 26000 CUP. Brian Pearce tested 19 grains with a bunch of different 158s.
I shoot 18.6 grains with a powder coated and tumble lubed Lee 158-RF and it does under 4" at 100 yards.
The NOE 154 WFN GC powder coated and tumble lubed with the same charge of Lil' Gun and it shoots around 2" for 10 shots with trimmed brass.
I hate gas checking and I hate trimming, so I shoot far more of the 158-RF. My alloy is 1-4-95 (wheel weights with a little type metal) water dropped after powder coating. I run 2-2-96 with the NOE and get nice, controlled expansion and deep penetration.
I have killed 8 or 9 deer with the 357 rifle now.
I also Like the Ranch Dog 135 9mm bullet. I killed one deer around 1200 fps impact with WW and it broke both shoulders and exited. One was 2000 fps impact with soft alloy and that bullet did not penetrate well. Fist sized hole in first lung and tiny hole in second lung, no penetration of far side rib cage. Another two were with WW at 2000 fps impact and the wound channel was spectacular with quartering pass through and fragmentary wounding the entire length of the wound tract about 2" in diameter.
I always water jug test my lot of bullets at different velocities before hunting. I have water jug tested about 100 different bullets in various calibers. I have found a good rule of thumb for deer is 5 jugs. This amount of penetration will let you take anything but a texas heart shot on deer. At woods ranges a 180 30-06 soft point penetrates 5 jugs. A 170 30-30 penetrates 7 because it retains more weight. The deer that I had poor penetration on was a 3 jug load and mushroomed to 66 cal with good weight retention, but penetration kills. I have shot deer with loads that penetrate 8-10 jugs and the wound channel is definitely smaller with the amount of power this rifle has. All of my favored loads penetrate in the 5-7 jug range and get some expansion, mixed with plenty of penetration.
From the rifle with Lil' Gun the 158-rf with medium hard alloy and high impact speeds turns into a wadcutter or slightly larger and penetrates 7 jugs. The NOE 154 gas check (same load) with 2-2-96 penetrates 5 jugs 61 cal, 100% weight retention. The Ranch dog 135-rf from the rifle with WDWW penetrates 5 jugs, mushrooms to 53 cal and loses 10 grains
Compared to the 135 2400 combo, the 158 Lil' Gun loads are more powerful and easier on the brass.
These are all Northern Ohio deer and maybe a little bit bigger than Kentucky deer.
Last edited by mnewcomb59; 02-27-2020 at 07:20 PM.
I haven’t shot a deer yet with my 1894C 357 but am currently shooting steel plates at 100 plus with Lyman’s 195 gr. 358430 at about 1100 FPS. No doubt that bullet would cleanly kill dear. Every time when someone questions if a 357 rifle will kill dear cleanly, I think of the 32-40 with a 165 gr. bullet at 1440 FPS that killed as much deer as any other caliber over a 100 years ago.
Where in Ky are you from? I’m from Boyd county I have killed deer with my Rossi 92 using the lee 158rf from about 35 yards. I also killed a deer with a 38 spl lee 125-358rf over 3.5 of bullseye. That was an accident but the doe dropped in her tracks and she was about 10 feet away
Read Jrs write up on the 357 mag he did a lot of work that is amazing with a 357 I miss that man
http://castbullet.com/shooting/shooting.htm
Thanks for the link. Enjoyed the read
Don Verna
I’m about 90 miles due south of you in Letcher county. Thanks for the link.
Yeah I drew for an elk in Harlan county, nice area
Thumbs up for the LBT 180 grain flat nose.
That's a powerful slug and not too heavy.
When I was young there was very little wildlife in the hills around here. They had been hunted to death. I didn’t see a deer locally until I was 30 years old. Turkeys were only to be seen once in a great while. The only bears were on Black Mountain, and you could hunt all day and not see a squirrel.
Times have changed, and people don’t rely on hunting like they used to. I rarely hear a shot in the woods, and I have rabbits and squirrels running in my back yard. A bear ate my garbage can the other day, coyotes are running everywhere, and I usually hit a baby deer with my sickle mower every year cutting hay. This coming year I’m going to have more time for hunting, and I think I’m going to start thinning the wildlife a little.
Between my son and myself, we've shot a number of whitetails with .357 leverguns. And we've shot a ton more with roundball muzzleloaders. If a 125 grain .45 roundball is adquate for deer out to 100yards there is no reason a .357 won't do just fine.
A 158 grain going at 1700 seems light-loaded to me. I have chronographed 158s at 1900 and still was below the published max. But 1700 is certainly enough.
I use a 180 grain WFN from NOE, 12 grains of 2400 puts it out of my Marlin/Ruger/Winchester at just short of 1500 fps. I'm getting complete pass through at ranges up to 125 yards. In my experience, XTP's regardless of caliber and grain weight tend to fragment and or shed their jackets. A doe last year, 180 grain XTP at 75 yards. Recovered the bullet on the offside, 82 grains. That's twice in two different calibers with the same performance. Never have any problem with a WFN on a deer.
“Let us endeavor so to live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry.”
― Mark Twain
W8SOB
I know opinions differ on the topic of pass-thru vs. fragmentation, but I think a bullet that dumps all its kinetic energy into the animal is pretty darn efficient vs. a pass-through shot where excess energy is wasted outside the animal, at least where southern whitetail deer are the target.
Feral swine, on the other hand? Heck yes, a WFN hard-cast at moderate to high velocities is a good idea, especially if targeting a large animal. Anything smaller than I am is fair game for those XTP’s, though!
Look up the Sierra 180 grain FPJ’s, #8370, if you want max penetration and a wicked wound channel. Here’s one I recovered out of a stack of dry parts catalogs, it was about 8” deep. Shot at 50 yards:
A link to my post about my experience with a .357 rifle taking deer
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...357-makes-meat
, It sounds like our NWO deer run a bit bigger than what the OP has in his neck of the woods but that should stack things in his favour.
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