"Straight" cases aren't straight. They are tapered slightly. Look at the case dimensions in your loading manual. A carbide die sizes them straight, an all steel die sizes them tapered so they fit the chamber correctly. I have a 45ACP pistol with a generous chamber, likely cut by a new reamer whose spent cases can develop a "belt" when resized in my carbide die.
My Rossi 92 does this. I just don't resize them all the way down anymore. I also don't reload them more than a couple of times before they go in the trash.
Please take this in a spirit of kindness not of being mean. But, this is a situation of over thinking. ALL cases expand to some degree if the load has enough power to do much of anything other than just falling through a target paper.
As I said in my post some 45 Colt chambers are cut to the LARGE size of the specs. You will get more expansion in thise chambers and will see it more readily than chambers cut to smaller sides of the specs.
As I said concerning the COLT SAA I fired with cowboy loads and the cases wouldnt go in a Ruger Vaquero. The Vaquero with much hotter loads would still drop into the SAA chambers simply because the chambers are cut on the smaller side of the specs in the Ruger. Hence less expansion even with higher pressures. The cases showed less expansion too.
Just dont over think this situation. I have been reloading at least 49 years and am not new to these situations.
I wont tell of the loads Ive run in the Redhawk 45 Colt that the cases show less signs than the OP's photos show simply because the chambers are cut smaller in specs. I will say this, the bullets were 415 grains though.
Last edited by 44MAG#1; 02-22-2020 at 08:29 AM.
I agree with 44Mag on the chamber comment. I also have a Redhawk in 45LC along with my Rossi. I have found that brass run through the Rossi will not easily chamber when reloaded into the Ruger since the Ruger chambers are cut much closer to spec. So I typically segregate my brass for the two guns.
No offense but with Outpost warning of possible brass failure and a KABOOM I'm going to stop short of the "overthinking" category. There may be some normalcy in a lever chamber having a recess at the entrance, but since the brass from this one doesn't show a bulge on cowboy loads but does on heavier loads I think at a minimum it does point to stress on the brass and caution needed with the heavier loads, with reusing of brass from the heavier loads and avoiding over-working the brass.
Erring on the side of caution is always best. No one said any different. I was just telling you of MY experience only and nothing different. There are as many different experiences on here as they are members. Many right many wrong and many somewhere between the two points. Any time you work brass you begin work hardening the brass. Less expansion less sizing down and the longer lasting the case. Just like if you flare the case mouth and then crimp the less you flare it and the lighter you crimp the longer the case will last without a case mouth crack. naturally the less presure one runs the less expansion. That goes without saying.
But sizing those cases a few times isnt going to do any harm on the normality of things. I have had case body cracks in new cases. Who knows, but based on my experience only I would reload cases like that a "few" times and not worry about it. Now I wouldnt over do it but I wouldnt be afraid to. One must always do what one feels is right for himself. I do.
I was just actually explaining why the cases in some 45 Colt chamberings looks like your sample case. It is due to how the manufacturing company holds their tolerances.
That is all.
Originally Posted by tacotime
Last edited by 44MAG#1; 02-24-2020 at 11:44 PM.
I'm with you there and good advice.
I will note that I have now seen brass fired in a Win 94 from this 45LC, and 357 Mag and a 44 Mag, and they all have a one-side bulge near the rim, but not as obvious as the 45LC bulge.
Does anyone think a case crack near the rim that occurs during firing a standard published load could cause a Kaboom on a correctly made Win 94?
No. Unless something else was terribly wrong. I have had case splits in the body with fairly heavy loads with new brass as I said previously.
Time to to load yourself some 45 Colt ammo and have fun.
A crack in the K, L or M regions adjacent the junction of the case body with the solid head and through the solid head itself into the primer pocket are always dangerous because if the case is not fully supported, they result in a ductile fracture mechanism which results in a large gas loss and possible rupture with fragmentation of a case, which is most likely when the case has been repeated expanded and excessively resized, resulting in work hardening, which may induce brittle failure, rather than ductile fracture.
Cracks well up the case body are less dangerous because the body wall is supported by the chamber.
This is the same mechanism which causes the well-known "Glock KaBoom" when bulged cases are repeatedly reloaded and corrected with "bulge buster" dies.
Last edited by Outpost75; 02-25-2020 at 12:44 PM.
The ENEMY is listening.
HE wants to know what YOU know.
Keep it to yourself.
There you have it. I am wrong. oh well.
Well I wouldn't say you were wrong 44, just that he was talking about that critical case head area failure which I really think is fairly removed from the bulge area on this particular case. That bulge begins gradually about 1/8 inch forward of the case head. So hopefully if it split it would maybe go in the latter category of split and be supported enough by the chamber.
But I also issue the disclaimer that I, like Sargeant Shultz, "know nothing."
The bulge buster dies should be thrown away as they put brass from people who have no moral compass back in the supply chain , I know got some once from some one here on cast boolits , and had a boom not a full blown kaboom as was not in a unsupported chamber like glock and s&w and others and bulge was on different brands of brass and any brass with a smile or wrinkle needs tossed , my colt clones and winchester/uberti do not leave out of round or odd shapes on my brass , as to that it sounds like a sloppy reamed chamber , and once again if your brass swells to much toss it or use it yourself but do not pass it on in a sale like some do , and I will not all smiley faced bulge busted is tossed and crushed
Not trying to hijack the thread but as the owner of a few Glocks I think I know something about them.
Mine, which are Gen4's do have fully supported chambers including my Gen4 40 S&W. There is a difference between a fully supported, a chamber that has an unsupported area and a larger chamber and Glocks do have large chambers. 40 S&W Glocks at one time did have an unsupported area at the feed ramp. AT ONE TIME. There are still many out there that does because people still own them and shoot them. Before anyone panics research and study.
All I have to say on this subject as no doubt I am wrong but, there are 45 Colts with the chamber cut to the larger side of the specs out there.
If one doesn't like that aspect one needs to try to find out which ones and avoid that brand.
Now have a good day. Shoot well.
Last edited by 44MAG#1; 02-27-2020 at 10:10 AM.
Norse, the SAAMI spec for the 45 Colt cartridge is cylindrical, not tapered.
MT Gianni is correct. You M94 chamber, as many are, are cut to SAAI spec's. Carbide dies size the case as a cylinder which makes the case too small in diameter at the expansion web. When loads with sufficient psi expand the case to fit the chamber you get what you have. No, most "cowboy action" loads do not have enough psi to expand the cases to fit the chamber. Get an older steel die as Outpost75 recommends. Or, if the loads are to be used in the M94 only, you might back off the carbide FL sizer to just size the case to the depth of the seated bullet. Will give you a sort of looking bottle neck cartridge but should feed and chamber five. That will not over work the brass so a "ka-boom" as mentioned won't happen if the case head separates on firing.
Larry Gibson
“Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
― Nikola Tesla
I’m another that had a Marlin .45 Colt that did this. I only fired a few factory loads in it, discovered this issue, and sent it back. This is a bad chamber.
This was in the late 80’s/early 90’s. It was a JM barrel.
USMC 6638
My older 45colt 1894 Marlin cowboy ltd creates bulged brass with my cas loads, always has. They size back down and reload fine, have had cases split [usually nickel] over the years but never a real failure. Never had a Winchester pistol caliber lever so I don’t know what’s normal on these. My Uberti 1873s don’t bulge brass.
I size my 45 colt in 2 stages. First step is size whole case with the large factory crimp die with crimp backed off. Second step is neck size about 1/3 of the way down with the smaller carbide resize/decap die. 3rd step is decap with universal decapper. This leaves little bottle neck cases that don't get worked as much and last a lot longer. Chambers also stay much cleaner with light loads after they have been fireformed to the chamber taper.
My Marlin 45 Colt, has a sloppy chamber issue also. Cases would split down the middle, after a few reloadings. I could see a definate bulge around the middle of the case. I started just sizing about 3/8" down, just enough to grip the bullet properly, with a carbide sizer. Problem solved. I can shoot many times before a FL sizing is necessiary. I have a steel sizer, that I lapped out slightly, which gives me enough reduction to work fine. I do believe the steel die (RCBS) is factory tapered. I do shoot traditional 45 Colt loadings though.
I've posted my procedure for reloading and feeding my two 45 Colt chambered firearms before. So, with a lot of members reposting their remedies for the bulged cases, I will again, as well. It certainly seems there is a lot of "to do" over a very minor issue, (being the bulged case). I use a carbide sizing die, as well as a crimp die with the crimping sleeve, and a carbide ring at the mouth. I partial size only, enough to hold the boolit. The de-capping pin is extended out far enough to allow de-capping. I started reloading for my Uberti SAA revolver about 2009. Everything went well. Then, earlier this year I bought a Winchester 94AE Trapper. I wanted to use my reloaded ammunition in both my revolver and the Winchester Trapper carbine, without using two different reloading techniques, or having to segrigate ammunition. After firing rounds in the Trapper, the cases would not chamber (bulged cases) in the revolver chambers. I didn't want to full length resize the case all the way. Hence, the partial sizing. Using a standard seat and crimp die did nothing to the bulge, so the Trapper fired cartridge still would not chamber the revolver. Hence, my using the crimping die with the sliding crimp sleeve and carbide ring at the mouth. When crimping, the carbide ring sizes the bulge down just enough to allow the cartridge to chamber in all the revolver, but not as much a a sizer die. So, there is no real issue. Once your dies are set up, you re-load your ammunition as any other. My powder of choice is a good dose of Alliant Herco. My boolit weights are 255-265 grain. I've loaded some cases many times, with no splits, not even at the case mouth. No issues here. Just load'm, shoot'm, and enjoy. No big deal.
Regards
Last edited by littlejack; 11-20-2021 at 01:40 PM.
If a 41 won't stop it, I wouldn't bet my life on a 44.
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