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Thread: Gaschecks needed for PC bullets?

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy Rp-'s Avatar
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    Gaschecks needed for PC bullets?

    I have never used a GC bullet before. I'm thinking about a lead bullet with my 450 bushmaster and would like to use the Lee 454-300-rf. I would be powder coating them so I'm curious if I would need the GC?

    I was pushing 230hp at 2100-2200 so I imagine the 300gr would be under 2000pfs. The PC powder is from smoke so I know it's good stuff I've only ever run it to. 1200-1300 in my 9mm though so just wanted to check and see what you guys say.

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  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    IMO, a gas check can only help with accuracy if the bullet is made for gas checks. The base of the bullet is so important to accuracy (of course if it falls off, then that is thrown out).

    I am not familiar with this bullet but if itís made for gas checks, I tend to use them regardless of PC or not. I have toyed with plain base gas checks and havenít noticed a difference in accuracy.

    I have pushed some PC bullets super hard in 30-30 (with gas check) and 454 casull (with and without gas check) without any notice of leading. BUT you should probably have a reason to push it hard because if itís for target practice, then IMO, the velocity doesnít buy you anything. Settle on accuracy over speed.

    Good luck with your endeavors.

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy Rp-'s Avatar
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    I'm sorry I didn't specify, the mold in question is GC. The velocity would be on the lower side for 450 bushmaster, but even still that would be faster than most all handgun velocities and only slightly slower than a lot of rifle calibers. It would be for target only until I could successfully test it for expansion for hunting.

    I'm not saying I can't put a gas check on either, just curious if it would still be necessary with the powder coat.

    EDIT: this is also an AR if that makes any difference.


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  4. #4
    AKA: GRMPS Conditor22's Avatar
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    under 2000pfs you could be OK IF everything else is correct ie diameter, relative hardness, cure on the PC. You'll have to see what your gun says.

    I'd try it in mine IF I had one of those

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

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    PC is not the end to all ends. Think of it as a really good lube. Yes if you are going to go over 1400 fps use a gas check even with pc. I just powder coating with my Mauser and spent the day cleaning out the lead.

  6. #6
    i gas check when it calls for a gas check. i powder coat over the gas check.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    It depends on what you are shooting and what range. At lower velocities that gas check is not needed for sealing the bullet.

    When not using a gas check the 'base' of the bullet is not flat. So, you have two surfaces that become important at the muzzle, the last groove and the base. Both need to be perfect in order to have a good departure from the muzzle. BUT, this is only really important for longer ranges and more critical accuracy demands. At 25yd you probably won't need to be picky about it.

    When powder coating this does create an issue. If you have uneven powder buildup around the base it will also cause more erratic behavior. Again, at short ranges it probably won't matter much.

    Easy thing is, you can try a batch with and one without and see what works best for you.

  8. #8
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    In my testing 1900 to 2000 FPS was the tipping point where i saw adding a gas check increased accuracy in MY guns.

    Also i add check and size then PC and size again.
    This way the check is definitely locked on.
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  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by kungfustyle View Post
    PC is not the end to all ends. Think of it as a really good lube. Yes if you are going to go over 1400 fps use a gas check even with pc. I just powder coating with my Mauser and spent the day cleaning out the lead.
    Sorry, but you are mistaken and passing out bad information, obviously based on errors you have made in the powder coating process.

    A "properly coated and cured polymer" forms a jacket and performs all the duties of a jacket. Being a superior lubricant is just one of the benefits of PC. Too many of us have far exceed 1400 fps in velocity using PC with no ill effects. I personally have exceed 1400 fps using pure lead, something no traditional lubricant can match.

    If you experienced leading I would first recommend starting with a quality powder, clean bullets and assuring a full PC cure. If you get it right I can assure you there will not be any leading with a correctly sized and loaded bullet.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    A properly coated and cured bullet does not have to have a gas check to be fired and protected from leading. However, a cast bullet with a gas check base has an imperfect base, it will shoot, but accuracy will suffer. The reason is a bullet is steered from the base and any imperfections on the base will affect its accuracy. However, an improperly installed gas check is just as much of an accuracy problem as no gas check at all. A gas check needs to be completely flat and seated perpendicular to the bands.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy Rp-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonheart View Post
    However, an improperly installed gas check is just as much of an accuracy problem as no gas check at all. A gas check needs to be completely flat and seated perpendicular to the bands.
    I have only used Lee push through sizers on my PC bullets. It says it will work with seating GC. Is this considered adequate for installing GCs?


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  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rp- View Post
    I have only used Lee push through sizers on my PC bullets. It says it will work with seating GC. Is this considered adequate for installing GCs?


    Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk
    I have used Lee push through dies. If you are getting the check to fully seat and it is perpendicular so the base is completely flat and not dimpled then it works. I do think a lube press tends to do better job, even though I do not lube I will be powder coating.

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy Tazlaw's Avatar
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    Following this thread.
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  14. #14
    Boolit Master



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    I have had ZERO issues with my PC up to 2000 FPS.

    But having said that I add a GC if the bullet design calls for one.

    PC dosent replace a GC but surely moves velocity threads hold UP A BUT to when ya really “NEED” a GC.

    CW
    NRA Life member ē REMEMBER, FREEDOM IS NOT FREE its being paid for in BLOOD.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Seating a gas check square to the base is critical for long range accuracy. Different things can mess up the process. A sprue that sticks up a bit, a bit of flash on the edge of the bullet shank, etc will mess up seating the gas check. Just placing it on the bullet and putting it through a sizer (Lee or lubesizer) will not guarantee a well seated check. The lubesizers have a jig of sorts that lets you seat the check before the bullet enters the sizing die.

    For my rifles I use the Lee sizer, but, with an extra step. Put the check on the bullet and run it into the die until it just touches. Then, with a 1/4" rod through the top I tap down on the nose of the bullet to firmly seat the bullet. The die holds the bullet vertical while doing this and the ram holds the check flat. Then run the bullet through the sizing portion of the die to crimp the check and size the bullet.

    Some folks have made custom dies to perfectly seat the gas checks before sizing. I may do that as well one of these days as I pursue 1/2 MOA groups with my cast bullets.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master



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    I shoot stout loads PCed without the gas check on all the time. With smokeless or BP in my .45/70.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rp- View Post
    I have never used a GC bullet before. I'm thinking about a lead bullet with my 450 bushmaster and would like to use the Lee 454-300-rf. I would be powder coating them so I'm curious if I would need the GC?

    I was pushing 230hp at 2100-2200 so I imagine the 300gr would be under 2000pfs. The PC powder is from smoke so I know it's good stuff I've only ever run it to. 1200-1300 in my 9mm though so just wanted to check and see what you guys say.

    Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk
    I use this mold for both my MSR and bolt action 450 Bushmaster rifles. I PC and tested without the GC and accuracy was nonexistent. With the 450BM specific GC from Sage Outdoors added and PCd accuracy is greatly improved. YMMV
    Liberalism is the triumph of emotion over intellect, but masquerading as the reverse.

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  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy Rp-'s Avatar
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    What's different about the 450 specific GC? I thought they were all pretty much the same thing, just different diameters.

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  19. #19
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Rp- View Post
    What's different about the 450 specific GC? I thought they were all pretty much the same thing, just different diameters.

    Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk
    The cup is deeper than the ones from Hornady, I’ll take some pics this evening of both types and add them to this post.
    Liberalism is the triumph of emotion over intellect, but masquerading as the reverse.

    I don't know how we ever shot maximum loads before P/C come along and saved us all. R5R

    "No mosque in the United States flies an American flag."

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
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    I started installing plain base gas check to my 30 carbine boolets.
    Then PC them.
    They do seem to shoot more consistent.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check