Lee PrecisionRepackboxMidSouth Shooters SupplyWideners
RotoMetals2Inline FabricationADvertise hereTitan Reloading

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 23

Thread: 223 Flat Primers

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold Pbaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    26

    223 Flat Primers

    Not sure if this is the right forum for this, and I've read varying posts about flat primers related to over pressure, but...

    I've been loading what I think are light loads for my 223 Wylde (Berry's 55 gr FMJBT on top of 24 gr H335, CCI 400's). I've been averaging 2850fps, but I have flattened primers. Not horribly flattened, but definitely not rounded. Question is, are the loads too light to form the brass, causing the primers to take the brunt of the pressure? Or do I have loose primer pockets (mixed brass that's been trimmed and swagged). Or something else???

    I don't think that I have anything close to over pressure, but I figured I would get a second (or 20) opinion.
    I was in the front row and I was HAMMERED DRUNK!

  2. #2
    Boolit Master trails4u's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Upstate, SC
    Posts
    898
    Pictures would be very useful...… Underpower loads can also 'show' signs of primer problems interpreted as overpressure, but at 2,850fps, I'd be surprised if that's the case.
    "Do not follow where the path might lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  3. #3
    Boolit Mold Pbaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    26
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	0217201748a.jpg 
Views:	61 
Size:	39.0 KB 
ID:	256983
    I was in the front row and I was HAMMERED DRUNK!

  4. #4
    Boolit Mold Pbaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    26
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	0217201748.jpg 
Views:	28 
Size:	35.3 KB 
ID:	256984
    I was in the front row and I was HAMMERED DRUNK!

  5. #5
    Boolit Master

    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Just outside Gun Barrel City, Texas
    Posts
    1,970
    They look OK to me.
    In the scheme of things, you're in the Goldilocks zone and about where ya want to be.
    I load 24-25gr of 748, as a mid pressure load for GI pulls of 55gr., and the middle one is about what mine look like.
    I also use just regular SR primers from CCI or Winchester.

    The case on the right is a true flattened primer.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	primersjpg.png 
Views:	18 
Size:	718.5 KB 
ID:	256986  
    Last edited by Winger Ed.; 02-17-2020 at 09:27 PM.
    It wasn't playing the blame game, finding fault, and complaining about every little thing that made America great.
    It was God, guns, and guts.

  6. #6
    Boolit Mold Pbaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    26
    Last one

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	0217201803.jpg 
Views:	28 
Size:	36.4 KB 
ID:	256987
    I was in the front row and I was HAMMERED DRUNK!

  7. #7
    Boolit Mold Pbaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    26
    I figured it wasn't a big issue, but with being on the lower end of pressure/velocity, I found it odd that I have this going on. I want to increase the load, but I have reservations.
    I was in the front row and I was HAMMERED DRUNK!

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Just outside Gun Barrel City, Texas
    Posts
    1,970
    You're good.

    I tend to stay around 80-90% of a full house load (developed for best accuracy) for most of my shooting.
    It works, and keeps some of the stress off the weapon.

    High pressure stuff is like driving your car at 130mph.
    It'll do it, but it'll also last longer if ya stay under about 80.
    It wasn't playing the blame game, finding fault, and complaining about every little thing that made America great.
    It was God, guns, and guts.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Farmerville,Louisiana
    Posts
    745
    Be sure your cases are clean and dry also so when the round fires the case grabs on and bolt face and primer doesn’t take all the pressure. I’ve forgotten several times to clean the lube off and had similar problems.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master


    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Franklin, TN
    Posts
    1,002
    Your primers look about like what I get when I'm loading medium loads, which is about where I usually hang out. Without checking data I think your are a medium load. I see no issue with them. The picture on the right in post #5 is a flattened primer. It is good to be cautious.
    Best,
    Rick

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

    tomme boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Clinton, Iowa
    Posts
    4,612
    You can go ALOT higher than that load for 556 pressures. Do a little searching and you can find the data you need. Those look fine as they are. You should find a node with just a little more. 55gr vmax seemed to be 24.3-24.5 in the 5 different 223 rifles I have.

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Moorhead, MN
    Posts
    330
    If you are over-sizing your cases so they feed easily, they could be pushing forward when the firing pin hits, allowing the primer to back out slightly, then get flattened when the full powder charge ignites. It's one reason primer appearance isn't reliable. There's also an advantage to bolt action rifles, as the cases can be sized for a slight crush fit.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master dkf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Pa
    Posts
    1,502
    In my ARs I don't really worry about primer flatness with .223 pressure loads because I'll usually end up with some pierced primers and "dimples" in the center of the crater when the pressure gets up there.(CCI 400) Then I usually switch to CCI SRP BR primers and use them all the way up to max 5.56 pressures. Have not had any BR primers (or military primers to pierce. Usually they just start to blow out the case when pressures get up there, as I do not have the capability to crimp the primers in place.

  14. #14
    Boolit Buddy McFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    I'm sure they'll listen to "Reason"
    Posts
    273
    Pbaker, I agree that the photos you posted those primers are not very high pressure. However, I would not explore "max" pressures with mixed headstamped brass. .223 case capacities vary a lot, and what may be fine for a lighter case may be over pressure in a heavy case.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    781
    I like the CCI400 in .223 / 5.56 as I've usually seen slightly better accuracy with it over other primers, but the cup is softer and it will definitely "flatten" more quickly than the harder CCI450 or Remington 7 1/2. I'm unfamiliar with your load, but it might pay to experiment with other primers.

  16. #16
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Moorhead, MN
    Posts
    330
    If you try other primers, be aware the power varies by brand. For example, Winchester primers are designed to reliably ignite graphite coated double-base powders. My Western Powders reloading manual lists only Winchester (rifle) and Federal (handgun) primers in their load data.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master



    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    2,878
    Those are not what I call a flattened primer, all the edges are rounded. Flattened will be FLAT all the way across the pocket.

  18. #18
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Moorhead, MN
    Posts
    330
    Hard mil-spec primers can be found. Sorry, I don't know the brand for sure (CCI?) or the number.

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Minne-Snow-Ta!
    Posts
    242
    I too have wondered about .223 pressures and flattened primers using CCI 400's. Like Norske says, try the CCI Small Rifle Military Primers #41, or similar, you will see "normal" pressure marks on them instead of flattened primers with the same pressures.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master


    HangFireW8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Central Maryland
    Posts
    2,535
    Those primers are fine. Pay attention to what hossfly says about chamber stiction.
    I give loading advice based on my actual results in factory rifles with standard chambers, twist rates and basic accurizing.
    My goals for using cast boolits are lots of good, cheap, and reasonably accurate shooting, while avoiding overly tedious loading processes.
    The BHN Deformation Formula, and why I don't use it.
    How to find and fix sizing die eccentricity problems.
    Do you trust your casting thermometer?
    A few musings.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check