Lee "ZERO Error" Target Reloading Kit Experience ???

[onelight]

Your experience might be different, I've never shot, or seen a 1/4'' group....

Oh I have , the trick is to get the range just right so the muzzle blast don't blow a hole in the target .

[W.R.Buchanan]

My first loader was a .243 Lee Loader. Just the regular Kit, not the target model, as I don't think they had that in 1970. This is how I did all my reloading before I got the Rockchucker in 1979. I still have it along with a couple of others as well as the cases, bullets, and powder for that gun.

My groups were all sub MOA simply because they were being shot with a Sako Forester which was one of the most accurate Rifles I have ever owned. And I sold it like an IDIOT!

I used a Plastic Mallet back then, but would use my Drill Press as an Arbor Press now. This type of tool is called a "Hand Die" and they were never intended to be beat on with hammers. It is one of the oldest methods of reloading brass cases. Lee pioneered that method because a Plastic Mallet wouldn't hurt the dies and you could easily achieve "Hunting Accuracy" by pushing the case in the die with a Plastic Mallet.

It is exactly the same process as using a Wilson Hand Die except my .243 set cost me $9.95! The Wilson's back then were more like #0 for each die. The Wilson system also uses a separate Neck Sizing and Seating Die, whereas Lee integrated the whole process into one die.

As a Machinist/Toolmaker I have to give credit, where credit is due, and Richard Lee is one of the most talented Toolmakers I have seen in my 40 years around the business. He is also responsible for getting more people started in Reloading than all the others combined!

So, tip of the hat to him!

Randy

[GWS]

GW, thanks for that great report. Yes, that's the rig. I don't know where the "Zero Error" came from, if that was a Lee label or if another party tagged it??

Your success story reminds me of my early casting effort with .45-70 trapdoors at age 16. Didn't know what I was doing. Threw my FFg down the tube and stuck that 405 Lyman slug into the end of the case. Tried one off a tire to see if the gun blew up. It didn't, Shot next three into a golf ball sized group and watched the Mauser guys scratch their heads.

Sixty years later, with hundreds $$ invested in equipment, I sometimes can;t do that well with modern cartridges.

I have to echo that. I have yet to duplicate that group with my modern equipment, and a rest at a fancy 100yd range. Certainly not standing with a scope and a $100 rifle. Fluke I'm sure.....but the Lee Target Loader was, I'm sure, the only reason it was possible.

l keep thinking I ought to load with it again to see if it is repeatable.....but I'm 70 now....and still don't have the patience. I've never been one to care whether a group is 1/4" or 2", both do the job on coyotes to elk.

[country gent]

I loaded 222 rem for several years with a lee standard mallet tool. This was for a savage 110 varmint model. used the basic tool and a old bottle caper instead of the mallet. Rifle would do 3/4" at 100 yds with this ammo and the loads it liked. I loaded my long range ammo with the wilson straight line dies and a small arbor pres I made up that was much squarer ad more solid than the old bottle caper. Dad foundd the caper and set it up for me as he got tired of hearing the tapping every evening during chuck season.LOL

Most accuracy rifles have chambers cut on the small side body wise and the necks are cut undersized to the loaded rounds are fit ti the neck with only a little clearance, usually .0005-.001. My 243 is a tight neck and with fitted lapua brass ( necks turned to loaded round dia of .266) it does 1/2 moa. The lee Targets neck reamer and a chamber cut to match it should be as good.

As was said above for these groups its a combination of everything working together. Rifle with good bedding, a good barrel properly fitted chambered. brass that fits the chamber exactly. bench set up and technique, shooters skills and techniques. light wind and conditions.

[Rick Hodges]

I had a box stock Remington 700 BDL Varmint Special in 222Remington. I used the Lee Target loader and competed in local benchrest competitions. I didn't win, but was competitive with all the 40-XB's and custom rigs. They worked for me.

[GWS]

........I don't know where the "Zero Error" came from, if that was a Lee label or if another party tagged it??

Well I'll be darned.....click on the instruction sheet picture in my first post and look at the top left corner!

Zero Error........never ever noticed it!!

[44magLeo]

The reamer I'm sure helped a lot, I think the micrometer seating die helped to. The case trimmer didn't hurt either.
On the speed, once you got a lot of cases trimmed and reamed you shouldn't have to do that again for quite a few reloads.
I have the regular Lee Loader and it works very well. Not as quick or easy as on my bench mounted tooling. About the same as loading with my 310 tool.
Leo

[Wayne Smith]

Wow, Randy. I got mine in 1969, in 30-30 and 16 ga. No I don't think they had the Zero Error then either. I was 16 and was loading for my Dad's and my brother's Marlin 30-30's and for my 16ga single barrel.

Little story I've posted here years ago. I was in my early 20's and an undergraduate at WVU and my Dad lived in Front Royal, VA. He called me one time and told me he thought there was something wrong with my reloads. We were coming back for Thanksgiving so I told him we could check it then.

We took a grocery bag and put a 2" black circle on it with a magic marker. Took it out to the woods and set it up about 70 yards from his truck. He had a 4 power Bear Cub scope on that Marlin waffle top. He lays that rifle across the hood of his truck and looks through the scope. And looks through the scope. And looks through the scope. He looks at me and asks "We did put a bullseye on that paper didn't we?" I allowed as how we had. "We put it in the middle, didn't we?". I allowed as how we had. Bang, Bang. We walked the distance to the target - two holes no more than an inch and a half apart an inch and a half above the bull.

"Dad, it's not my reloads. You need new glasses!" He allowed as how that might be true.

[PBSmith]

The reamer I'm sure helped a lot, I think the micrometer seating die helped to. The case trimmer didn't hurt either.
On the speed, once you got a lot of cases trimmed and reamed you shouldn't have to do that again for quite a few reloads.
I have the regular Lee Loader and it works very well. Not as quick or easy as on my bench mounted tooling. About the same as loading with my 310 tool.
Leo

Leo, was that a tapered reamer? How far down in the case neck did it cut?

[EDG]

I have had 5 of the Lee Zero Error loaders.
The first one I bought new in 1975 to correct the necks of a large lot of Norma .243 brass.
While this brass was boxed in boxes that said "Match" it was pretty crummy due to the case necks being thick on one side and thin on the other. I reamed all those cases in a lot of 100 cases. Then I shot them for groups in a Rem 700 Varmit in 243.
I was not too impressed by the results of the Lee tool since I got results just a good with WW brass and regular dies. My best groups varied between 1/2" and 5/8" with either loading method. I got similar groups with regular dies with a Rem 788 243 and a Ruger 77V in 6mm Rem.

I get groups about that size with most of my better scoped rifles using standard dies.

To get better groups apparently it takes a better rifle.
My best groups were shot using ammo loaded with hand tools in a Rem 40X-BR in 6X47. This is a late 1970s or early 1980s rifle with a very heavy 20" barrel. Finish of the chamber and bore are much superior to most factory barrels. My best groups hover around .375 using out of the box Nosler 70 grn Ballistic Tips.
The 6X47 ammo was loaded as follows:
1. Fired .222 Mag cases were expanded and FL sized using a Redding FL die with a long tapered expander.
2. The cases were primed with an old Lee hand priming tool - the threaded shell holder version.
3. The cases were charged with IMR4198 and the bullets were seated using a Wilson 6X47 seater.
4. Test groups were shot to fire form the cases.

The loading sequence was repeated except the only the necks were sized using an older Neil Jones bushing neck die. The die that I have is a very early model with an aluminum body and a steel bushing. I swapped out the bushing so the neck was sized about .002 smaller than the bullet.

Nosler Ballistic Tips (70 grn) produced the best groups in my rifle but Sierra HPBT 70grn Match bullets and Hornady, Sierra and Speer 75 gr HP bullets produced similar groups all using the same loads in with the same dies. These .375 groups were shot with a 36X Leupold scope and the trigger is a Broughton 3 lever conversion of a Remington 700 trigger.

As the years went by I bought more reloading stuff at gun shows and on the internet.
I wound up with 2 sets of Wilson 6X47 tools plus 3 sets of shop made tools and the Neil Jones sizer plus a few sizers made by Hart. I also found a 6X47 Lee Zero Error tool that must have been a special order item.

Some conclusions
The Lee tool worked fine but I found I preferred 2 separate tool for several reasons.
1. The Lee tool does not give you much control of the neck thickness. Either you ream the case or you don't. If your rifle chamber has a large neck your case necks may get worked a lot between the expansion due to firing and the sizing operation.
2. The Lee tool thins the case necks more than I like. If you load the reamed cases with normal dies you do not have a real tight case neck grip on the bullets. This grip is not adjustable with the Lee reamer.

3. With the Wilson or Neil Jones bushing type neck dies you can change bushings to adjust the seating force required.
4. Using a neck turning tool you can remove the high spots of the case necks giving a more uniform neck and grip on the bullet. In addition if you have a tight neck chamber you can turn the case neck to fit the chamber with a slight clearance.
5. If your chamber neck is large you can use other cases or brands of brass to produce thick neck cases. These can be turned to fit your chambers with an adjustable neck turning tool. This flexibility does not exist with neck reaming since the reamer is not adjustable.
5. I prefer using the Wilson seaters though there is not a lot of difference in actual use.

Since I had Wilson tools in all the same calibers that I expected to use for precision loading I got rid of my Lee Zero Error tools. Anything I could do with them I can do with the Wilson tools and a neck turning tool.
At one time the Lee tool was reasonably priced considering you got the nifty hand priming tool, a charge table, a dipper, a deburring tool and a trimmer. Today Lee fans and collectors pay a premium for those tools so I sold mine and used the money to pay for other tools.

[1hole]

Leo, was that a tapered reamer? How far down in the case neck did it cut?

It isn't a reamer, as such. It's a boring bar with only one cutting edge. I

It can cut as far in as you wish and leaves no "dough nut" unless you want one. it's quite effective for common factory cases to be fired in common factory rifles.

[dtknowles]

I have 3 sets I acquired in a grab bag purchase several years ago. I always tell myself I’m gonna try them when I see these threads. I shot with a guy years ago that swore by them. He produced 1/3 moa 243 loads consistently. It was in a custom rifle though, so not super impressive when I look back now. I need to dig mine out and do some testing vs my traditional loaded ammo. I can see this being a good lesson for my son that’s just learning and pop as well.

Are you kidding. 1/3 moa consistently is always impressive (well maybe except for top tier bench rest comps). Custom rifle does not make you a shooter and if you can shoot and have a good rifle you still need good ammo, wind flags, read the wind, good rest, consistent cheek weld, etc.

Yeah, I can do it but it takes everything I can bring to the table. I think it is pretty impressive. bench rest rifle, neck turning, bench rest primers and bullets.

Tim