During load development, what do yall do when your first test lands one hit on the target, and your other 3 shots miss the fresh cardboard that measures 34" wide and 40" tall?
Abandon powder?
Abandon boolit?
Its not the gun, i have shot 3/4 inch groups with it before.
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.
Move closer. I'm not kidding, some loads have changed POI enough that it has missed a target that size.
If that doesn't work, I'll think about the problem and work based on that. Usually an undersized bullet, too slow to stabilize, too fast to fly straight (skidding or out of balance), etc. Leading would be a clue. Shooting over a chronograph would be a clue. Oblong holes on a target would be a clue.
25-20 Single Shot 7.5 gr 4227 1 inch groups, 2400 powder and dacron filler one on target four completely off target.
Are you posstive its NOT a one hole group ? I think we need more info on the gun and the boolit.
Good Judgment comes from Experience, Experience comes from Bad Judgment !
One hole group. That'd be my first guess if I were the one shooting!. LOL
Try again and closer
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From a cold barrel, my first 45-70, would throw the first shot (and, sometimes, the second) about 12" high and 2-3" right at 100 yds...no kidding!! Once 'warmed', it would shoot POA until the barrel started to foul. Was probably a bedding issue but I'd acquired the gun as part of a swap and, back then, had no real interest in BPCRs so it went on a buddy's table at the next gun show and out the door with the second guy who picked it up.
I agree with the previous "move closer" suggestions. That first shot you're seeing on the target may be the 'flyer' and the other four nicely group just off the edge of the paper.
Bill
"I'm not often right but I've never been wrong."
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What caliber, what is the expected velocity, what distance, and what is the height of the sights above the barrel centerline.
I was sighting in a scope on an AR. At 25 yards the first shot was in the 8 ring. Made the appropriate adjustments and the second shot was a 10. Moved the target out to 100 yards and fired the third shot. Couldn't see it even with a 20x spotting scope. At the next cease fire I went down and found it. It was centered on the target horizontally and just barely cut the top edge of the target.
What was the culprit? The almost 4 inch height of the scope above the barrel. The scope was mounted on the carry handle of an A2 design rifle. Since then my desired point of impact at 25 yards is about half of the sight height below the point of aim. The fourth shot was in the center of the 10 ring.
Some times it's the pot,
Some times it's the pan,
It might even be the skillet,
But, most of the time, it's the cook.
Brutal, what boolits? What size? What rifle? What, what, what? Years ago before I found this site or any forum, I wanted to try shooting cast in my Marlin 30/30 with microgroove. I bought some 165 gr .309 boolits and loaded them fairly mild and bore sighted. Shooting at 50 yards 1 boolit of 10 hit a 24 by 36 inch paper. And they never got any better, no matter what. Later, a friend gave me some 165 gr sized .310. Better but not much. Then a few years later after discovering several forums, including this one, I tried some .311 sized boolits. Made me happy. Very happy! Wished I'd known about slugging a barrel lots earlier. Look up on here how to slug your barrel for size. This forum has some of the best people you will ever find. Ever!
Never trade luck for skill.
I've had the issue a couple times with "new to me" Rifles.
One time was a loose scope rail.
the other time is was a stock putting pressure on the barrel.
So, as others have said, most closer and shoot some more, but you should also give the Rifle a good "look over", maybe have someone else look for problems too. and yes, I read your post were you said "it's not the gun"...I will tell you "Prove it !"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.”
― The Dalai Lama, Seattle Times, May 2001
As stated I would check stock bolts and bearing, scope mounts and scope ( its not unusual for a scope to break). Also check your cast bullets size in relation to the bore, A slightly small bullet can strip. Also check velocity pushing a cast bullet to hard or fast can be detrimental to accuracy.
You dont state caliber, bullet,rifle, twist rate, mire information would really be helpful trouble shooting. A cast bullet loaded short in a long throat can be inaccurate also. On some rifles bench technique is very important.
Scope and mounts have caused this issue for me before when sighting in a friends gun.
A real waste of time and ammo.
And I agree with move closer, the one time I was stubborn and refused to move to a shorter range I ended up hanging a 3’ rug as a target.
POI was about two feet low.
I thought I could cheat that time, gun/scope had been zeroed but I had taken the scope/mount off (AK side mount) to fit in a case.
Never thought it would end up that far off.
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+1 on move closer until you can identify that you can get a group.
I had this happen with my FN49. I was doing several things wrong.
1) I had the boolit seated too deeply.
2) I was pushing the boolit WAY to hard.
The first round or two were fairly good shots and then they started just going EVERYWHERE. Later, I looked at the barrel and it was severely leaded.
So, I seated my boolit out further and slowed it down and the gun is a good shooter.
If there's no lead, your gun may just not like the load. Guns tend to have a "harmonic"... You can always up or down the charge a little. An example of this was my Henry BB in 44 mag. I was loading a 240 grain boolit under W296. At 22 grain, I was getting 2-3" groups at 50 yards. At 23.5 grain, I was getting 1" or less groups. And at 24.5 grain my groups were greater than 4". Also the 22 grain boolits were sooty and the 24.5 grain had flattened / slightly cratered primers.
So if your cases are sooty, you might not be acheiving proper pressure or if you have signs of pressure maybe your over driving the boolit?
WWG1WGA
Oh, had this happen too. I tried to put a scope on my 1895. The recoil from some heavy loads kept lossening the screws - even with the blue lok-tite.Originally Posted by mjwcaster
WWG1WGA
Gun is a rem 783 in 30/06
Boolit is powder coated and gas checked rcbs 180 fn sized to .309 (alloy was 2 pounds lino, .5 pounds of pewter, 7.5 pounds pure)
Powder is superformance 54 grains if i remember right.
Just checked my log and found where i had tested some superformance with a 200 grain boolit and had some decent groups with it. So i dunno. Guess ill move closer and find out whats going on.
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.
Check for over spinning the bullets. My guess is they aren't making it to the target.
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that's what like 2600fps ? my 30-06 every hardness, PC, GC, PP whatever I try over 2,000fps they just actually group that big. when you go too fast its not subtle about it in my experience
That's a lot of speed, and potentially an undersized bullet. A closer target should tell you what is going on.
Gonna try 30 yards with same load next time i get to shoot. Also gonna try going down a few grains and trying to get it closer to 2200 fps. I woulda chronoed these today, but battery was dead
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.
I have had a couple of rifles and their scopes treat me this way too. Once, while working up a 30-30 and its 100 yard load, I watched the scope's reticle spin along its horizontal axis and come to rest with the vertical crosshair in an elliptical plane to the shooter's eye. No longer was the view through the scope a complete circle.
30 yards is a good distance. I shot a 223 caliber AR15 at a 25 yard target, found it, but couldn't find the target at 100 yards because the scope mounts had vibrated loose. After a fix, it became a shooter in the realms past 250 yards. I really like that rifle!
I have had keyholes, but never a complete disintegration of a boolit. This should be interesting to follow.
If it was easy, anybody could do it.
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