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Thread: Taming the Bugger 9mm

  1. #21
    Boolit Master Drew P's Avatar
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    Using a coating like hitek or PC is like cheating. It adds diameter, and prevents lead on steel contact.

  2. #22
    Boolit Master Drew P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onelight View Post
    The buddy's i shoot with that shoot Glocks buy .356 Hi-tek coated I have a couple of guns with the same style rifling as Glocks in 9 and 45 and shoot Hi-tek none of us get any leading . PC or Hi-tek seem to be much more forgiving than traditionally lubed bullets in many guns . I think I may try to PC my own cast if I ever get my building in back done.
    Maybe someone here that does not use PC bullets in their Glocks will have an answer for you.
    Skip the pc and go right to hitek if you want my advice. I’ve tried both and the hitek is way way way easier and faster with less fuss and fiddling.

  3. #23
    Boolit Bub
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    I was experiencing serious leading with a M&P 9C using the Lee 125-TC with 231.
    Tried multiple levels of hardness. With lube, with Hitec, and with both Hitec and lube.
    All of them leaded but the combination of lube and Hitek was acceptable (barely)

    What fixed the issue was changing to a slower powder (CFE Pistol) which made the coating/lube and hardness choices almost irrelevant.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew P View Post
    Skip the pc and go right to hitek if you want my advice. I’ve tried both and the hitek is way way way easier and faster with less fuss and fiddling.
    If I decide to start I may take your advice I have had excellent results with the Hi-tek bullets I buy.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew P View Post
    Skip the pc and go right to hitek if you want my advice. I’ve tried both and the hitek is way way way easier and faster with less fuss and fiddling.
    Hi-TEK is what I’m using and I’m still getting significant leading. I REALLY want to get away from lubing and sizing. Using the Star for sizing only is so much easier.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by pastera View Post
    I was experiencing serious leading with a M&P 9C using the Lee 125-TC with 231.
    Tried multiple levels of hardness. With lube, with Hitec, and with both Hitec and lube.
    All of them leaded but the combination of lube and Hitek was acceptable (barely)

    What fixed the issue was changing to a slower powder (CFE Pistol) which made the coating/lube and hardness choices almost irrelevant.
    I’m loading the Lee 356-125-TC with 3.5 gn of Clays. Clays is pretty fast burning. I’ll try something slower burning.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by RydForLyf; 02-21-2020 at 09:28 PM.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master Drew P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RydForLyf View Post
    Hi-TEK is what I’m using and I’m still getting significant leading. I REALLY want to get away from lubing and sizing. Using the Star for sizing only is so much easier.
    Seems that the consensus is that while hi tek can help fix a problematic bullet fit, it will not fix a real problem, so you must address that first. PC, because it’s generally quite a bit thicker, could possibly mask a problem a little more, but it’s still not addressing the real issue. It also can create fit issues with extra thickness on other areas like the noses. If your bullet is too far smaller and that is why you’re leading, you might get a different mold or beagle it or whatever to get the size up. Or hone out your sizer etc. I know .002” seems like a lot of interference, and I’m at more like + .0005” on my 9mm’s, and I’m right at the ragged edge of being undersized in my belief. I think I’d really like a solid .001” interference fit in a perfect world.
    I load all my 9mm with red dot. About as fast as it gets.
    I believe that one of the big problems with 9mm loading is the fact that it’s a tapered case, so to return the dimensions to factory you end up with a bullet that’s swaged down by the case itself. So, it may not be ideal for a multi-firearm ammo, if possible see if you can chamber cases that are substantially wider at the mouth, and maybe size them down less, or watch that they don’t get crimped down after seating, squishing the bases to below acceptable diameter fit. Pull a few and measure them at the bases.
    Last edited by Drew P; 02-18-2020 at 06:23 PM.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    This is what it says on the SNS casting home page.
    Attention All Customers! Over the years, we have noticed one common theme when it comes to dirty/leaded barrels...Powders with fast and or hot burn rates. Here is a link to a powder burn rate chart. We recommend powders with burn rates slower than the top 15 on this list, with the exceptions being Ramshot Competition, Red Dot, and N310.
    Here is a link to SNS
    https://www.snscasting.com/
    I don't know enough about how powder burns to comment on how much difference powder choice makes , but the folks at SNS have this on the home page. I would assume it would be the same for any Hi-tek coated bullet

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew P View Post
    Seems that the consensus is that while hi tek can help fix a problematic bullet fit, it will not fix a real problem, so you must address that first. PC, because it’s generally quite a bit thicker, could possibly mask a problem a little more, but it’s still not addressing the real issue. It also can create fit issues with extra thickness on other areas like the noses. If your bullet is too far smaller and that is why you’re leading, you might get a different mold or beagle it or whatever to get the size up. Or hone out your sizer etc. I know .002” seems like a lot of interference, and I’m at more like + .0005” on my 9mm’s, and I’m right at the ragged edge of being undersized in my belief. I think I’d really like a solid .001” interference fit in a perfect world.
    I load all my 9mm with red dot. About as fast as it gets.
    I believe that one of the big problems with 9mm loading is the fact that it’s a tapered case, so to return the dimensions to factory you end up with a bullet that’s swaged down by the case itself. So, it may not be ideal for a multi-firearm ammo, if possible see if you can chamber cases that are substantially wider at the mouth, and maybe size them down less, or watch that they don’t get crimped down after seating, squishing the bases to below acceptable diameter fit. Pull a few and measure them at the bases.
    I've measured after sizing and I'm at 0.358. I loaded some and pulled a few and bullets were .3575/.358, so there's a bit of eccentricity. Looked at using a 38 S&W expander, but mine is too short. Weather permitting, I'll load some with slower powder this weekend.

    I also just got in 400 coated Bayou Bullets in 124 GN, 135 GN, 145 GN and 147 GN to load and try to see if there is a different result with a more professional alloy.
    Last edited by RydForLyf; 02-21-2020 at 09:29 PM.

  10. #30
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by onelight View Post
    This is what it says on the SNS casting home page.
    Attention All Customers! Over the years, we have noticed one common theme when it comes to dirty/leaded barrels...Powders with fast and or hot burn rates. Here is a link to a powder burn rate chart. We recommend powders with burn rates slower than the top 15 on this list, with the exceptions being Ramshot Competition, Red Dot, and N310.
    Here is a link to SNS
    https://www.snscasting.com/
    I don't know enough about how powder burns to comment on how much difference powder choice makes , but the folks at SNS have this on the home page. I would assume it would be the same for any Hi-tek coated bullet
    I shoot my 40's with W231/HP38 and it is really far down the list. I'm loading the 9's with Clays (#9 in their list) because I was using that for the 125 JHP's I was loading. I have some others further down the list to try this weekend.

  11. #31
    Boolit Master

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    I had leading with the Lee 125RF and 231. Tried the 38 S&W expander which helped some. Hardened the lead and that also helped some but still had leading. Switched to Unique (with 38 S&W expander and same hardened lead) and leading went away.
    God Bless, Whisler

  12. #32
    Boolit Buddy Ateam's Avatar
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    The 9mm I had leading troubles with had a non existent throat, a few turns with a throating reamer and no more leading, might be worth a peek.

  13. #33
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    I had leading at first with the 9mm. I finally slowed them way down and started back u in load. Found a sweet spot between 900fps and 1000fps. If I ran any faster it would lead, this was with a S&W2.0. It worked for me but everyone has to find their own sweet spot. (Alliant Power Pistol) Good luck with your workup.
    CD
    When you find you are in deep trouble, look straight ahead,keep your mouth shut, and say nothing.

    A man who is good enough to shed his blood for the country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards

    Theodore Roosevelt

  14. #34
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    I have good luck with BE, RedDot & green dot in my 9MM's [I powdercoat everything] I used to HiTek coat but for small batches, it took too long. I like to run 5 -- 7# batches of boolits at a time when I do HiTek

  15. #35
    Boolit Master Burnt Fingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ateam View Post
    The 9mm I had leading troubles with had a non existent throat, a few turns with a throating reamer and no more leading, might be worth a peek.
    This is something to consider. I had terrible leading with my Canik till I had DougGuy do the throat. Now there's no problem.
    NRA Benefactor.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeggen View Post
    I had leading at first with the 9mm. I finally slowed them way down and started back u in load. Found a sweet spot between 900fps and 1000fps. If I ran any faster it would lead, this was with a S&W2.0. It worked for me but everyone has to find their own sweet spot. (Alliant Power Pistol) Good luck with your workup.
    CD
    Most of what I load is in the range you load in , my experience the faster you shoot them the more advanced techniques you have to add to the process. I also find 900 to a 1000 more pleasant to shoot.

  17. #37
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by RydForLyf View Post
    I've measured after sizing and I'm at 0.358. I loaded some and pulled a few and bullets were .3575/.358, so there's a bit of eccentricity. Looked at using a 38 S&W expander, but mine is too short. Weather permitting, I'll load some with slower powder this weekend.

    I also just got in 500 coated Bayou Bullets in 124 GN, 135 GN, 145 GN and 147 GN to load and try to see if there is a different result with a more professional alloy.
    Find someone with a lathe - a new expander is an easy turning job.

    I have to see if a 3d printed part will be strong enough - I use PLA for seating stems and top punches so with the right print settings it might be able to work as an expander (but probably not as a powder through expander)

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by whisler View Post
    I had leading with the Lee 125RF and 231. Tried the 38 S&W expander which helped some. Hardened the lead and that also helped some but still had leading. Switched to Unique (with 38 S&W expander and same hardened lead) and leading went away.
    Other than the Clays, I’ve got W231/HP38, WST, Power Pistol and Herco. This weekend is supposed to be nice, so I can do some experimenting.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeggen View Post
    I had leading at first with the 9mm. I finally slowed them way down and started back u in load. Found a sweet spot between 900fps and 1000fps. If I ran any faster it would lead, this was with a S&W2.0. It worked for me but everyone has to find their own sweet spot. (Alliant Power Pistol) Good luck with your workup.
    CD
    Power Pistol is a great crowd pleaser, especially in dimly lit ranges.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew P View Post
    There may be better ways to go but the 32-20 cowboy set expander I have by rcbs is a very nice die for this. It’s long and has the step in it for lead
    I tried my Dillon 38 expander, but it’s just too short.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check