New S&W M19 "Carry" @ LGS

[oldhenry]

Yesterday my wife and I visited our local gun store to get her a "carry" purse for Valentine Day (I'm a hopeless romantic). The owner showed us the new S&W M19 "Carry": a 3" bbl., abbreviated grip...…..very ugly revolver. No beautiful polish & blue job of the past (I'd describe it as a flat finish). The DA was like an old rusty garden gate & the SA was nothing to write home about (it did have a trigger stop.....just what we needed on a carry gun: right?).

Get this: price was $1,050.00.

It is sad to see S&W producing something like this. It made me thankful that I was able to pass on my '60s era M15 to our youngest son, my '80s era 25-5 to our oldest son & a Speed Six to each of our daughters.

Even my LEO turn-in #64 looks like Miss America compared to that M19.

Henry

[El Bibliotecario]

It is my contention that used Smith and Wessons made prior to the introduction of current manufacturing shortcuts function just as well, cost less, and are aesthetically more pleasing. But that's just me.

[Hickory]

It's not 1967 anymore, prices increase in direct relationship to inflation.
The government has been spending money like a new lottery winner. This causes the value of money to decline making things cost more.
One consolation though, in 25-30 years it will be worth as much as twice what you paid for it.

[gpidaho]

oldhenry: It doesn't seem that it's just S&W. Most of the "new" handguns are just CNC formed parts thrown to gather by a semi-skilled work force and shipped out without so much as a function test. Gp

[wv109323]

They don't make them like they use to. If they did it would probably cost $1500.
Due to enviormental reasons, lack of machinists and worker talents they can't polish,machine or blue them like they use to. Parts are MIM, no hand fitting and matt finishes.
Besides the younger generation want a 17 shot 9mm.

[JRD]

Bear in mind that the new Model 19 Carry is a bead blasted matte finish, so it's not a fair comparison to polished blue gun.
The Model 19 Carry is a Performance Center gun that also has a tritium front night sight and a ported barrel. Criticism of the trigger pull is fair though.
S&W does have a new 4" Model 19 Classic that is a polished blue gun. It's MSRP is $843. If you plug $843 into an inflation calculator and go back to 1975, that equates to a price of $170.

I prefer older S&W's myself, but wait another 30 years and a future generation of shooters will be waxing nostalgic that the S&W's of 2050 aren't as nice as the old S&W's of the 2020's. Many of us will be gone by then so no need to worry about it. Enjoy the guns you like and leave the new stuff to the new shooters who don't know to appreciate the classics.

[Petrol & Powder]

While inflation is a valid factor when comparing prices over the years it is only part of the equation.

Manufacturing cost is a part, taxes are a part (and I'm not talking about taxes at the point of sale) and the retail market is a factor.

Labor costs are a HUGE part of manufacturing costs and it consists of more than just wages.
Environmental regulations drive up manufacturing cost. Raw material costs, capital costs (land, buildings, machinery), energy costs and administrative costs; all add to manufacturing cost.

Taxes on the land, equipment, utilities, materials, transportation and excise taxes on the final product all contribute to the cost of the product BEFORE it even makes it to the final point of sale.

The retailer has to make a profit and in some locations, the demand from the buyer is high enough that the retailer can charge a premium and STILL have buyers lining up.

I'm amazed that any company can still manufacture firearms in the U.S.A. and be even slightly competitive.

To counter all of these expenses, manufacturers must find ways to reduce costs in order to hit an acceptable price point.

MIM parts, CNC machining, efficient assembly techniques, lower cost materials, less labor intensive finishing and simplified models are all methods to reduce costs.

Guns, like cars, are cheaper on the secondary market. I'll let someone else drive it off the showroom floor and pay all of those initial costs for me.

[Outpost75]

An old gun that works is worth more than a new gun that doesn't!

For that much money you can get a pre-1980 Model 19 and have it gunsmith tweaked as a duty carry.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/854838805

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/856689452

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/855208688

[Thumbcocker]

A pinned and recessed 19 is a thing of beauty and wonder.

[Petrol & Powder]

An old gun that works is worth more than a new gun that doesn't!

.......

Agree 100% !

[gnostic]

It's true, the older S&W handguns are nicer to look at than the new guns. But the fact remains, having a short barreled model 19 within reach will give you serious confidence. I have a 2.5'' round butt model 19 with the matt finish as does another knowledgeable gentleman from this forum. Who says, these revolvers were made for the Air Marshals back in the 80's. Don't ask how I know, but my model 19 goes bang everytime from inside my coat pocket.

[Petrol & Powder]

I think there are some rather significant differences between the older Model 19's and the current crop Performance Center Carry Comp 19; that go beyond just the finish.

There is the internal lock, which isn't necessarily a deal breaker but it is absolutely un-needed.
Many of the parts are MIM parts. Again, probably not a deal breaker but not the same as the older models.
There's the two piece barrel (liner and shroud). This is a huge departure from the older model 19's. The two piece barrel isn't a bad thing by itself but it is vastly different from the traditional model 19.
The "Ported" barrel (basically just a hole in the shroud beyond the barrel itself) is hardly an improvement. I don't know when the concept of defensive handgun with a ported barrel will die but I truly hope it dies soon. If you gave me a free self-defense handgun with a ported barrel I would re-barrel the gun.

So despite all of the cost saving measures: Matte finish, two piece barrel, MIM parts - S&W is still asking over $1000 for this 2.5" magnum K-frame with an extra hole in the 3" barrel shroud. I'm with oldhenry on this one - I'll pass.

A 2.5", round-butt, magnum K-frame is an excellent fighting tool but a $1000 version needs more than a front blade night sight to earn that asking price.

[oldhenry]

Everyone has their own opinion on these things & maybe I should not say that a side by side comparison between the M19 "carry" with a 3" GP100 would be a great sales tool for Ruger: but,...…. I said it.

I'll now put on my helmet & huddle in the corner.

[Thumbcocker]

Love my GP match Champion as well. That doesn't detract a thing from a p&r 19.

[stubshaft]

My very first pistol was a Model 19 combat masterpiece with a round butt and 2.5" barrel. I bought it in 1968 for the outrageous price of $116.00 and it was worth every penny of it. I can't see spending $1K+ for the newer one.

[ddixie884]

I'd like to try one, just for kicks.....

[Petrol & Powder]

Everyone has their own opinion on these things & maybe I should not say that a side by side comparison between the M19 "carry" with a 3" GP100 would be a great sales tool for Ruger: but,...…. I said it.

I'll now put on my helmet & huddle in the corner.

No need for a helmet. If we're talking about the currently available, new DA revolvers chambered in .357 mag. - The Ruger GP-100 has a lot going for it. Strong (like seriously strong), no internal lock and a proven design. It might need some attention when new to clean it up a little, but the GP-100 is an outstanding gun.
However, I wouldn't put a 3" GP-100 in the same class as a 3" S&W Model 19. The GP-100 is a bit thicker and more of a competitor to the L-frame Smith's than the K-frame Smith's. In fact, the GP-100 uses the same speed loader as the L-frame S&W.

The older round-butt, 2.5" S&W model 19 was sometimes seen as the Cadillac of snubnose revolvers back in the revolver days of U.S. law enforcement.
Built on the K-frame platform, chambered in 357 mag and equipped with excellent sights. While not "pocket gun" and not small enough to be in the same class as a J-frame snubnose; it was still small enough for concealment and often a primary gun when carried concealed.
When your K-frame choices were a 2" model 10 or 64 in 38 Special or a 2.5" model 19 in .357 mag, the short barreled 19 looked pretty good.

The 3", round-butt models 13 & 65 were outstanding combat weapons; but that's a discussion for another thread.

[Petrol & Powder]

And BTW, back during the original run of the model 19, a 3" barrel was exceptionally rare on a model 19. Most were equipped with a 2.5" barrel or a 4" barrel. 3" model 19's were made, but not many.

The current model 19 has a 2.5" barrel but the barrel shroud on the Performance Center Carry Comp is 3" with that idiotic "port" in the shroud in front of the sight.

[Outpost75]

And BTW, back during the original run of the model 19, a 3" barrel was exceptionally rare on a model 19. Most were equipped with a 2.5" barrel or a 4" barrel. 3" model 19's were made, but not many.

The current model 19 has a 2.5" barrel but the barrel shroud on the Performance Center Carry Comp is 3" with that idiotic "port" in the shroud in front of the sight.

They also made Model 19s with a 6-inch barrel for CHP, but less common than the 2-1/2" or 4". Some 3" Model 19s were made for Customs and Border Patrol, Office of Naval Intelligence and State Dept. Security for use by Marine Embassy Guards, reason for ther 3-inch barrel was to have a full-length ejector rod. FBI tested a few, but wanted a fixed sight gun and the Model 13 resulted in the early 1970s.

[Petrol & Powder]

The 3", Round-Butt Model 13 - probably the best idea the FBI ever had; maybe the only one they ever had.