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Thread: "The most important question?"

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    "The most important question?"

    "He began asking His disciples, saying, 'Who do people say that the Son of Man is?' And they said, 'Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.' He said to them, 'But who do you say that I am?'" Matthew 16:13-15 (NASB).

    How would you answer this question?

    exile
    Last edited by exile; 02-13-2020 at 01:22 AM.
    "There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost, and religious liberty preserved entire. If therefore we yield up our temporal property, we at the same time deliver the conscience into bondage." --John Witherspoon, The Dominion of Providence Over the Passions of Men. 1776

    "The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times." Psalm 12:6 (E.S.V.)

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    Jesus is another prophet, another Moreh, a Rabbi.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

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    The lamb of God, sent to take away the sins of the world.
    Even your sins Tim.
    Political correctness is a national suicide pact.

    I am a sovereign individual, accountable
    only to God and my own conscience.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    "For in Christ all the fullness of the Diety dwells in bodily form."
    Colossians 2:9 (Berean Study Bible).
    Last edited by exile; 02-14-2020 at 05:28 PM.
    "There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost, and religious liberty preserved entire. If therefore we yield up our temporal property, we at the same time deliver the conscience into bondage." --John Witherspoon, The Dominion of Providence Over the Passions of Men. 1776

    "The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times." Psalm 12:6 (E.S.V.)

  5. #5
    Boolit Master


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    Scholars have not been able to agree on the interpretation of "Son of Man". It would seem foolish to study one verse in the Bible to reach a conclusion when it is used numerous times in the Bible and not consistently. This from Wikipedia:

    " The interpretation of the use of "the Son of man" in the New Testament has proven to be challenging, and James D. G. Dunn and separately Delbert Burkett state that it is a prime example of the limits of New Testament interpretation because after 150 years of debate no consensus on its meaning has emerged.[1][2]"

    Of course. it does not preclude laypersons, elders, pastors, etc etc will "know" more about such things than scholars who have dedicated their lives to the question...but such is normal when it comes to our beliefs. So, IMHO, it is far from the "most important question" in understanding the Bible, God, Jesus or our faith. But YMMV.
    Last edited by dverna; 02-13-2020 at 02:23 PM.
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    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by exile View Post
    "He began asking His disciples, saying, 'Who do people say that the Son of Man is?' And they said, 'Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.' He said to them, 'But who do you say that I am?'" Matthew 16:13-15 (NASB).

    How would you answer this question?

    exile
    With Jesus' "abilities", it seems odd He would have to ask such a question.

    The disciples' answers are pretty telling though.
    They are clearly stating that the people had an understanding about reincarnation by thinking Jesus could be Elijah, Jeremiah, etc.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
    With Jesus' "abilities", it seems odd He would have to ask such a question.

    The disciples' answers are pretty telling though.
    They are clearly stating that the people had an understanding about reincarnation by thinking Jesus could be Elijah, Jeremiah, etc.
    Rizzo,
    There are a number of instances in the Bible where God/Jesus asks a question that He should know the answer to. It may be done to make a point. For example, you open the cupboard and ask "Who ate all the cookies"; and your 8 year old is sitting there with crumbs on the table and a half empty glass of milk. The only other possibility is God is not omniscient...but that is unacceptable to most Christians.
    Don Verna

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    Boolit Master
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    "And he answered them, 'Go and tell John what you have seen and heard: the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the poor have good news preached to them. And blessed is the one who is not offended by me.'" Luke 7:22-23 (E.S.V.)

    Isaiah 9:6-7.
    Last edited by exile; 02-13-2020 at 03:23 PM.
    "There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost, and religious liberty preserved entire. If therefore we yield up our temporal property, we at the same time deliver the conscience into bondage." --John Witherspoon, The Dominion of Providence Over the Passions of Men. 1776

    "The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times." Psalm 12:6 (E.S.V.)

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    "The woman said to Him, 'I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us.' Jesus said to her, 'I who speak to you am He.'" John 4:25-26 (NASB).
    "There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost, and religious liberty preserved entire. If therefore we yield up our temporal property, we at the same time deliver the conscience into bondage." --John Witherspoon, The Dominion of Providence Over the Passions of Men. 1776

    "The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times." Psalm 12:6 (E.S.V.)

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
    With Jesus' "abilities", it seems odd He would have to ask such a question.
    It was a rhetorical question Rizzo, he wanted them to think about the answers.

    They are clearly stating that the people had an understanding about reincarnation by thinking Jesus could be Elijah, Jeremiah, etc.
    You don't seem to understand the massive difference between a "reincarnation" and the prophesied resurrection of Elijah. (Jeremiah had no part in that so he's irrelevant.)

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    You don't seem to understand the massive difference between a "reincarnation" and the prophesied resurrection of Elijah. (Jeremiah had no part in that so he's irrelevant.)
    Well, my understanding is reincarnation involves a soul taking on a different body than before, when coming back.
    Resurrection would be like when Jesus came back as Himself before He died.

    You are stating that it was prophesied that Elijah would resurrect.
    So, did he resurrect?
    If he did not, then Jesus would not be the Messiah now would He.

    I think you are the one confused.

    Jeremiah is relevant to my reply because he was mentioned in the Bible passage that the OP presented.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzo View Post
    Well, my understanding is reincarnation involves a soul taking on a different body than before, when coming back.
    Resurrection would be like when Jesus came back as Himself before He died.
    Correct on both counts. But no one gets reincarnated. Elijah will be resurrected -- and as himself, not someone else (and everyone else eventually) and the difference is huge.

    You are stating that it was prophesied that Elijah would resurrect.
    So, did he resurrect?
    If he did not, then Jesus would not be the Messiah now would He.

    I think you are the one confused.
    Messiah's coming as the Lamb of God was not predicated on Elijah.

    The prophesy of Elijah's resurrection simply has not YET been fulfilled. So what, neither has a LOT of other end times prophesy. ???

    Jeremiah is relevant to my reply because he was mentioned in the Bible passage that the OP presented.
    Neither Jeremiah's nor Elijah's mention in that passage was a suggestion of reincarnation and that was the focus of your post.
    Last edited by 1hole; 02-14-2020 at 02:54 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    Correct on both counts. But no one gets reincarnated.
    Uh-huh, I disagree with you on that, as you know.

    Messiah's coming as the Lamb of God was not predicated on Elijah.
    Perhaps you forgot.
    The disciples were aware of the prophesies of the coming Messiah.
    Did they not question Jesus about this concerning John the Baptist?
    Jesus answered them and told them that Elijah had come and it was indeed John the Baptist.

    Neither Jeremiah's nor Elijah's mention in that passage was a suggestion of reincarnation and that was the focus of your post.
    Of course it was a suggestion
    'Who do people say that the Son of Man is?' And they said, 'Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.'
    How could they think Jesus was really Jeremiah or another if they did not believe that such a thing could be?
    That is, that Jesus was really Jeremiah.
    It's clear that there was an understanding/belief in reincarnation back then.

    Is it so bad that reincarnation exists?
    I have given several instances from the Bible (here and elsewhere) that suggests an understanding of reincarnation back then.
    Does it shatter your faith if it does?
    I do not see why it would.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    It's official, another thread I started totally fizzles. Oh well, Happy Valentine's Day!

    exile. (Ephesians 2:4-10)
    "There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost, and religious liberty preserved entire. If therefore we yield up our temporal property, we at the same time deliver the conscience into bondage." --John Witherspoon, The Dominion of Providence Over the Passions of Men. 1776

    "The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times." Psalm 12:6 (E.S.V.)

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
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    "'Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes, and look on the fields, that they are white for harvest. Already he who reaps is receiving wages, and is gathering fruit for life eternal; that he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together.'" John 4:35-36 (NASB)
    "There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost, and religious liberty preserved entire. If therefore we yield up our temporal property, we at the same time deliver the conscience into bondage." --John Witherspoon, The Dominion of Providence Over the Passions of Men. 1776

    "The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times." Psalm 12:6 (E.S.V.)

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by exile View Post
    It's official, another thread I started totally fizzles. Oh well, Happy Valentine's Day!
    exile. (Ephesians 2:4-10)
    Quote Originally Posted by exile View Post
    "He began asking His disciples, saying, 'Who do people say that the Son of Man is?' And they said, 'Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.' He said to them, 'But who do you say that I am?'" Matthew 16:13-15 (NASB).

    How would you answer this question?

    exile
    Well, nobody really answered your question so I can understand the frustration.
    I went off on a tangent from what you posted so I do apologize for that.

    How would you answer that question?

    Beyond that, you posted more Bible passages with no comment about them.
    It's not clear to me why you posted those passages (below).
    Are you wanting comments from us on them?
    Is there an underlying point you are trying to make?

    Quote Originally Posted by exile View Post
    "For in Christ all the fullness of the Diety dwells in bodily form."
    Colossians 2:9 (Berean Study Bible).
    Quote Originally Posted by exile View Post
    "And he answered them, 'Go and tell John what you have seen and heard: the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the poor have good news preached to them. And blessed is the one who is not offended by me.'" Luke 7:22-23 (E.S.V.)

    Isaiah 9:6-7.
    Quote Originally Posted by exile View Post
    "The woman said to Him, 'I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us.' Jesus said to her, 'I who speak to you am He.'" John 4:25-26 (NASB).

    Quote Originally Posted by exile View Post
    "'Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes, and look on the fields, that they are white for harvest. Already he who reaps is receiving wages, and is gathering fruit for life eternal; that he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together.'" John 4:35-36 (NASB)
    Oh, ...and happy Valentines Day to you too.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Jesus asked His disciples, "Who do you say that I am?"

    Since I am his disciple as well, I thought maybe providing some of my favorite passages that reflect who Jesus is (without comment) would stimulate some thought and provoke some discussion by others on the forum regarding who they thought Jesus was (and is).

    This may seem out of place, however, most of the time when Jesus was questioned, confronted, he responded with scripture. So, I feel that this is still a valid approach.

    Not much came of it though, so...

    exile
    "There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost, and religious liberty preserved entire. If therefore we yield up our temporal property, we at the same time deliver the conscience into bondage." --John Witherspoon, The Dominion of Providence Over the Passions of Men. 1776

    "The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times." Psalm 12:6 (E.S.V.)

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by exile View Post
    Jesus asked His disciples, "Who do you say that I am?"

    Since I am his disciple as well, I thought maybe providing some of my favorite passages that reflect who Jesus is (without comment) would stimulate some thought and provoke some discussion by others on the forum regarding who they thought Jesus was (and is).

    This may seem out of place, however, most of the time when Jesus was questioned, confronted, he responded with scripture. So, I feel that this is still a valid approach.

    Not much came of it though, so...

    exile
    Got it.
    Thanks.

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