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Thread: 7.62x39 Rimmed

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy blackbahart's Avatar
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    7.62x39 Rimmed

    any one play with the idea of a 7.62x39 in a rimmed version for a single shot ? Was playing around with the idea and mocked up a round just to see how it would look

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  2. #2
    Boolit Master




    bruce drake's Avatar
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    30-30 Winchester as Parent Brass or 303 British?

    If so, than someone else has considered it in thr more than 130 years that each cartridge has been around. look up the .303 Pygmy cartridge for what some folks in Australia and New Zealand have done to do what you have been thinking of.

    Bruce
    I Cast my Boolits, Therefore I am Happy.
    Bona Fide member of the Jeff Brown Hunt Club

  3. #3
    Boolit Buddy blackbahart's Avatar
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    thank you ,
    I couldn't remember what it was called and google was coming up with the 308x1.5 and 30 Herrett .I did not want or need to reinvent the wheel as there should be something out there using similar dimensions
    Want to put a 30 cal barrel on my Stevens 44 1/2 and do not want a full length 30-30 at this time but something different and not fully interested in investing in a reamer and set of dies as I already have the x39 on hand

    The mocked case is actually a starline 414 sm case run through a 7.62x39 die with a 308 plug and trimmed

    will put more though into this before I take more actions

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
    GARD72977's Avatar
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    That is awesome. I really like seeing new ideas.

    I have been toying with the idea of using a 414sm as a subistute for the 40-50 SS.
    " If you cant do it with a 308 , you dont need to do it!

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    I thought of doing that but in rimmed BO - pressure can get too high for standard loads. x39 looks like it would be OK but continuous 45K psi would be hard on the Stevens?
    Whatever!

  6. #6
    Boolit Buddy blackbahart's Avatar
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    thats the same problem that will arise with the common 30-30 win in factory ammo if not hand loaded for the Stevens
    ,but with this it will need to be a hand loading project as there will be no on the shelf ammo ,and that way keep the pressure lower

    it is a consideration when dealing with the old actions to keep pressure in the lower bracket .The plan is to make and fit a new barrel and extractor and be able to change it out with the existing 40-65 on it now

  7. #7
    Boolit Master

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    First, I think it's a neat idea, and like the way the rimmed cartridge looks.
    Second, the bolt face of an SKS might be altered to work with the rimmed cartridge. Also the Zastava Mini-Mauser.
    Third, is there a need for this, since the .30-30 Win. is so available? Personally, I don't have a need for anything less powerful than the .30-30.
    Fourth, some folks do things just because they can, and it's fun.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    Neat idea for someone already in position of the x39 reamer. Basically a 3herrett, I like the idea. A further thought on protecting the action from future use of hi pressure ammo. If you short chambered, even a half mm then a factory x39 would not allow the breach to close. I am playing with a Ruger NO1 in 7.62x39. Really a nice setup, and I am using heavy bullets seated long. All supersonic, hunting power and it is doing well. So far only casual groups but the summer may bring some more serious explorations. Please keep us updated on your thoughts and project progress.
    You dont practice until you get it right. You practice until you cant get it wrong. Jason Elam, All-Pro kicker, Denver Broncos

  9. #9
    Boolit Bub
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    To me, the major benefit of the 7.62x39 is widely available, very cheap, ammo.

    I think it admirable to tinker, but it seems you're more or less just re-inventing the 30-30...

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Talk to Paul and Gail at cpa, they specialize in the 44 1/2 and chamber their repos in some rimless cartridges so they might have an extrctor tor the 7 62 X 39 case head. I be;iece its actually a .441 dia same as 6 ppc. Close to what you want is the 30 herret (While not a factory round it is factory chambered so reamers might be available, along with dies and components) Your mock up on the 414 sm case looks really interesting. Something to consider is maybe push the shoulder back a little and blow some of the taper out, (.100-.125 and a steeper angle leaving a longer neck for cast ). This would also keep full power 7 x 39 rounds from chambering. If your action is set up for 40-65 already you might try to keep that rim size to use the same extractor. Something along the lines of 30-30 X 1 1/2" Might be interesting to work with.

    Since you have asked about a rimmed version of the 7.62 X 39. I would measure water capacity on several cases makers and batches to get a good average. Then start working your dummy cases down to this. By blowing out some taper and steeper neck you could end up with a short fat powder column thats very efficient with a full caliber + neck. THis technology has really worked on the 22 and 6 ppc and the short magnums.

    Just for the info the last custom wildcatt reamer I purchased from Mansons was $180.00. It was for a wildcat based on the 300 wsm shortened with the steeper shoulder in 6.5 mm, and slightly less water capacity than the 6.5 X 284. Its a short squat little cartridge that gives very good performance and exceptional es when chronographed.

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy
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    I think it's a great idea, and I don't understand why people feel the need to pooh pooh it. He's already said a steady diet of 30-30 WCF would be hard on the 44 1/2, so this gives the option of loading it to whatever he wants. Chambering it for 7.62x39 involves a special extractor, and this can be set up to prevent the use of factory ammo so someone else isn't using it and prying it out with a screwdriver.

    Possible too that it doesn't even have to be done with a 7.62x39 reamer, you might also use a .303 reamer and short chamber to where you want it, even a 30-40 Krag and get a longer neck. If I recall right, the .303 Pygmy was done by shortening the .303 chamber to where the 7.62x39 would chamber. Lots of options to get to where you want to be and it's pretty much a wildcat anyway.

    Not everything in the shooting world has to be done inside some tiny lil box, it's a good thing when people think outside of that box.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Jedman's Avatar
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    About the only rimmed case with the proper head diameter to use would be the 303 Savage. Years ago I almost made a handi rifle barrel for a shortened 7.63 X 39 rimmed using the 41 mag brass. It works for a 1.3" version.

    Jedman

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy blackbahart's Avatar
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    when I carry on the project it is going to be rimmed and will make an extractor as it is a 6 o'clock and relatively easy to mill out and fit .Will know more as I progress through the barrel as it is a raw 27" blank and will have to do some octaganing

  14. #14
    Boolit Master Jedman's Avatar
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    mistake.
    Last edited by Jedman; 02-12-2020 at 05:41 PM.

  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    You can get that by cutting off the back end of a Lee-Enfield barrel and extending the thread to create a shorter chamber out of the front end of the chamber.
    EDG

  16. #16
    Boolit Master uscra112's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by popper View Post
    I thought of doing that but in rimmed BO - pressure can get too high for standard loads. x39 looks like it would be OK but continuous 45K psi would be hard on the Stevens?
    The 44 1/2 is a pretty strong smokeless-era action. Ned Roberts used one to develop his eponymous .257 cartridge, although today we'd prefer to keep the base diameter down to something less than .470", since the barrel tenon is smaller than the Winchester or Borchardt. A steady diet of .30-30 won't even make a 44 1/2 break a sweat. Many were sold chambered for .38-55 and .32-40 smokeless loads.

    IMHO a Mann-Niedner firing pin would be a good idea if pressures above 45K were in the program, but dozens of 44 1/2s were built into wildcats like the .22 Lovell 2R that were often loaded past 50kpsi, and nobody seems to have had any trouble.


    A rimmed BO would be trivial, since there's several rimmed cartridges with that base diameter already. I wouldn't see the point - the BO is woefully deficient in powder capacity, except for subsonic loadings. x39 or .30 Herrett a much better proposition. I actually accumulated dies and a mess of .30 Herrett brass a few years ago, thinking I'd build one on a single shot action, but doing studies in Quickload convinced me that the Herrett is also short of capacity when used in a rifle length barrel, and stayed with the .30-30. Still have a .30 Herrett barrel for my Contender, but have never used it even once.
    Last edited by uscra112; 02-13-2020 at 11:16 AM.
    flectere si nequeo superos, acheronta movebo

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Now THIS thread is the reason I really enjoy the Castboolits website. Learning about new ideas and creations, info from other people about their similar experiences, and more about long ago but very similar experiments and developments. Of course this is in addition to all the info about cast boolits. Please keep the ideas and information coming.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master

    rockrat's Avatar
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    Look at the 30 Major or 30 Grendel. You could cut your chamber a bit deeper so as to use the full length 414sm brass, and preclude regular x39 ammo being used. Deepen the chamber and cut your rim recess.

    You could still use x39 brass by loading and seating a bullet so as to jam in the rifling ,so when shot, would move the shoulder forward a bit. Neck would be short though. That should be a fun little cartridge. 30 major is a pretty accurate little bugger. Bet yours would be too.

  19. #19
    Boolit Buddy blackbahart's Avatar
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    added a .095 washer between the shell holder and die on un trimmed 414
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  20. #20
    Boolit Master

    rockrat's Avatar
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    That should work well. Go for it with a x39 reamer if you have or maybe a 6.5 grendel reamer followed by a 30 cal neck/throat reamer if those are available.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check