Titan ReloadingRotoMetals2RepackboxWideners
Inline FabricationLee PrecisionADvertise here

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 28

Thread: Big trouble with little gas checks

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Douglas Ridge Rifle Club, Eagle Creek, Oregon
    Posts
    206

    Big trouble with little gas checks

    I have never had issues seating checks this bad before. Here is a picture of one of the bullets notice the uneven flange around the base. Some of the bullets dont have this problem but checks will not seat anyways. Even if I remove this with a pencil sharpener I am still unable to seat a check most of the time correctly. Should I return the mold to the maker?Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20200207_220101.jpg 
Views:	34 
Size:	142.5 KB 
ID:	256291Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20200207_220101.jpg 
Views:	34 
Size:	142.5 KB 
ID:	256291

  2. #2
    Boolit Master

    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Just outside Gun Barrel City, Texas
    Posts
    1,763
    That's odd.
    You'd think if the problem was the mold, it would do the same thing every time.

    I have had .458 405s from a single cavity mold act goofy if I hold the handles too tight or too lose.

    I'd tinker around with heat, alloy, and your rhythm before I sent the mold back.

    Something else I do with some molds is instead of a wooden mallet,
    I turn the sprue plate by hand with a big heavy welder's glove. When doing that, I'll press down on it.
    That helps make a pretty base sometimes if my alloy and temp aren't quite right for what it likes.
    Last edited by Winger Ed.; 02-08-2020 at 02:22 AM.
    Everyone can learn from their mistakes.
    However; it's less painful, and cheaper to learn from the mistakes of others.

    Old age and treachery will always overcome youth, and skill.

    OK folks. Enough of this idle chit chat. This ain't no retirement home.
    EVERYONE!!
    Back to your oars. The Captain wants to waterski.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Tom, VA
    Posts
    4,711
    It appears that the sprue plate is floating on the melt. If you are using a dipper, try resting the dipper on the sprue plate immediately after the pour, to hold it down to the top of the blocks. You might also need to tighten the pivot, and snug the retainer on the end opposite the pivot.

  4. #4
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Douglas Ridge Rifle Club, Eagle Creek, Oregon
    Posts
    206
    I have tightened the pivot as much as possible. Unfortunately there is no sprue plate retainer screw. All there is is a roll pin that serves as a stop for the sprue plate.Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20200208_110109.jpg 
Views:	9 
Size:	46.3 KB 
ID:	256322Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20200208_110109.jpg 
Views:	9 
Size:	46.3 KB 
ID:	256322
    Last edited by Ramson222; 02-08-2020 at 03:03 PM.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Tom, VA
    Posts
    4,711
    Try holding it down. Use your dipper, or lift the mold up against the pot. If your problem is corrected, drill and tap for a hold down. Who made the mold?

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    3,038
    Can you provide more info.

    What size checks and what brand?

    Can you provide a picture of a failed install?

    Can you measure the diameter of the base of the bullet?

    Can you provide a side view of the bullet?

    How are you starting the check on the bullet?

    I put the check in the sizer an use the ram to push the bullet down into the check. Sometimes I have to expand the mouth of the checks to get them to go on right. I do this with a steel ball.

    What alloy are you using and how hot are you casting. That can change the diameter.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  7. #7
    AKA: GRMPS Conditor22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    1,565
    The first thing that comes to mind is you are getting bad/incomplete fill out -- need a higher temperature, more tin, preheat the mold more, or there could be lube on the bottom of the sprue plate or the top of the mold migrated into the cavity (s) preventing good fill at the base.

    Sprue plate doesn't look centered on the cavity.

    You could drill and tap the side of the mold and install a brass set screw to keep the screw from turning

    More information and more pictures would be helpful
    what mold is this
    what alloy are you using
    how are you casting
    how hot is the alloy [casting with hotter alloy will give you a smaller boolit size
    are you preheating the mold
    what and where are you lubing the mold with and are you wiping off the excess [when you lube the top of the mold, a little goes a long way AND you need to leave the boolits in to keep ANY lube out of the cavities

    You could go to a hardware store and buy some wave washers to put under the sprue plate screw, this helps hold the plate down.
    The plate/screw DOES NOT have to be really tight, just so you can hold the mold up to a light and not see light between the plate and the mold.

    Could it be the gas checks?

  8. #8
    Moderator Emeritus
    garandsrus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Warren, MI
    Posts
    2,560
    Is this a gas check mold? It’s hard to tell from the picture. I had one mold that was cut too large for the gas check to seat properly. Not really much you can do other than send it back to the manufacturer.

    Some Things people have tried:
    Anneal the gas checks to make them softer
    Use a punch of some type to enlarge the gas check opening on each gas check

    Neither work well in my opinion.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Douglas Ridge Rifle Club, Eagle Creek, Oregon
    Posts
    206
    Mold is HV 170gr sliver from arsenal molds.

    Alloy is 2.21% tin and 6.01% antimony.

    Temp is 720F acording to PID.

    I'm ladel casting, bottom pour does not work.
    I'm preheating the mold on a hotplate.

    I only lube the sprue plate pivot and the handle pivot points with a minuscule amount of syn 2 cycle.

    Gas checks are from sages outdoor and are 30cal and .017 thick.

  10. #10
    AKA: GRMPS Conditor22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    1,565
    Suggestions,

    Scrub the mold well with Dawn (it could be dirty --- main cause of mold problems)

    You could Kick the temp up 10 (normally I cast in the 690 range except pure)

    preheat mold to 400

    Bottom pour -- pressure pour: hold the mold snug with the spout (like dipper pour but with more weight above/behind it -- leave a puddle above each cavity)

  11. #11
    Boolit Master

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado
    Posts
    1,533
    I haven’t hand poured mine since the mid 1970s but remember briefly trying to put the spigot on the sprueplate and holding it snug. Years later I was putting the spigot of a bottom pour on the plate in a similar fashion. Problem was the spur was small and cutting on opening was not making a smooth base.

    30 ish years ago, I read where the author was pouring onto the plate to allow the melt to swirl into the cavity. Worked great, larger sprue cut nicely. Then I started pouring between 2 cavities and having one sprue. That made for great fill out, heavier sprue consistently held the plate down, sprue cutting left a smooth base. It also gave an easier visual that the sprue had frosted over.

    Anyway, trial and error, developed a rhythm which varies depending on boolit mass, and really made consistent casting sessions. Little quirks, little tweaks, lots of success. That and several decades of casting 2k a week with various calibers.
    Common sense Gun Safety . . .

    Is taught at the Range!

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    3,038
    I still don't understand what your problem is? Do the checks fall off or is it you can't get them on?

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Douglas Ridge Rifle Club, Eagle Creek, Oregon
    Posts
    206
    I cant get them on.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

    Hickory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    The Great Black Swamp of Northwest Ohio
    Posts
    4,281
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramson222 View Post
    I cant get them on.
    Should have mentioned that at the get-go.
    Political correctness is a national suicide pact.

    I am a sovereign individual, accountable
    only to God and my own conscience.

  15. #15
    Boolit Buddy
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Douglas Ridge Rifle Club, Eagle Creek, Oregon
    Posts
    206
    I tried everything mentioned and still can not get a gas check on a bullet. I will be sending it back to the maker.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master



    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    1,318
    Check your sprue plate on a perfectly smooth surface. Otherwise, it could also be a defect with the size of the mold.

  17. #17
    Boolit Buddy
    DHDeal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    277
    That mold casts a fat shank plain and simple. I have a new one that does the same myself and it's a 32 cal that calls for a .284" ID gas check (30 cal of course).

    Not really germaine to your problem, but after I found out my beautiful brass mold casts a fat shank, I started researching forums about fixes and it appears to me that molds that call for the 30 cal gas checks seem to be the worst offenders. Hardly any 357, 44, 45 caliber molds are ever mentioned. I have plenty of the larger caliber molds and gas checks either snap on or the bullets can be placed in the gas checks, just that easy!

    My 32 caliber mold drops a bullet with a shank that measures .287" naked. PC that thing and you're at .289" ish. Anyway, I've beat them on, used the gas check seater on my lubesizer, used a more or less correct sized drill bit and expanded the gas check, tried 3 different 30 cal gas checks from Sage's, and it's not good enough. The seated checks are either slightly crooked or lead squishes out above the gas check. Not good enough. I've now ordered a NOE .308 caliber gas check expander. I sure hope the NOE tool will work as this is a PITA. Sound familiar to your situation?

    Meant to add that I'm a big fan of GC molds and don't mind putting checks on at all, but if it don't fit you must acquit. I'm not there yet as I'm still waiting on my GC expander, if that doesn't allow a good fit, then I'm done with it.

    If I were you, I'd call the mold maker, explain your issue (with measurements) and ask for another mold. Try what you will, but if it casts a fat shank now, it'll cast a fat shank later.
    Last edited by DHDeal; 02-12-2020 at 08:10 PM. Reason: More added

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
    dtknowles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Southeast Louisiana
    Posts
    3,038
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramson222 View Post
    I cant get them on.
    I was guessing this was the problem. I suggested you flare the checks a bit. I have had to do that. I use a ball bearing and a little brass hammer. I hate having to add an extra step but it avoids frustration and defects. I put the checks on a metal plate, put the steel ball on each check and tap it with the brass hammer. I then put the check in the opening of the bullet sizer die and press the bullet into the check. This works with Lyman and RCBS tools, not so much with Star or Lee.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  19. #19
    Boolit Master Dan Cash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Western North Dakota
    Posts
    3,097
    Have any of you considered removing the gas check ring in the mould and making plain based bullets? A gas check is absolutely not needed up to 1700 fps or so.
    To paraphrase Ronald Reagan, the trouble with many shooting experts is not that they're ignorant; its just that they know so much that isn't so.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    2,604
    Get a gas check expander from NOE I had problems with some 22 cal GC and got the one from NOE and take care of the problem .
    Life Member of NRA,NTA,DAV ,ITA. Also member of FTA,CBA

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check