Possible danger with Contender

[megasupermagnum]

This is my very first TC Contender, although I do have plenty of experience with the Encore. During my last range trip, one problem I had was that the trigger stop set screw was giving me fits. This has been fixed. The problem was that I noticed once when I forgot to lower the hammer that it released when I opened the gun. When I got home I took some empty, but primed shells and tried to replicate it. To my horror, it not only drops the hammer the second you touch the release, it puts a pretty good, although shallow dent in the primer. Even with that, it did not set off any primer in 15 attempts. This seems like a serious design flaw.

Has anyone ever had a problem with a Contender going off out of battery like this?

[Czech_too]

My short answer would be no I have not had any of mine go off out of battery. The long answer would be that I have never had the hammer cocked when when breaking it open. I have always, carefully, lowered the hammer prior to doing so. Now though, I'm curious as to what would happen. Maybe later in the day I'll have to take a look-see.

[M-Tecs]

On the original Contender the hammer is designed to drop if you leave it cocked and open the action. This is normal and it is not a safety issue since the hammer block will prevent the hammer from hitting the firing pin. Sounds like you have an issue with the hammer block. The one design issue to be aware of it is not recommended to use the trigger to lower the hammer and not recock the set. If you do the hammer is resting on the firing pin and not the hammer block.

Owned 7 or 8 since the early 70's and have been around a bunch. Never had an issue.

http://rvbprecision.com/firearms/mik...ty-issues.html

The Contender is potentially the most dangerous of the two. It is similar to the old familiar Colt single action revolvers, for example, in that the hammer and firing pin can rest on the primer of a live round if the hammer is not drawn back to half cock. If the firearm is dropped on its hammer or the hammer is otherwise struck, it may fire. The Contender will do much the same thing if the hammer is not moved to a safe position. IF THE CONTENDER HAMMER IS ALLOWED TO REST ON THE FIRING PIN WITH A LIVE ROUND IN THE CHAMBER, IT MAY FIRE IF THE HAMMER IS STRUCK, IF THE FIREARM IS DROPPED ON THE HAMMER, OR IF THE HAMMER IS DRAWN TO THE REAR AND RELEASED.
Correct Procedure for the Contender is to always open and close the barrel to reset the hammer block safety, which prevents the hammer from contacting the firing pin when the hammer is not cocked.NEVER LOWER THE HAMMER AND LEAVE IT RESTING ON THE FIRING PIN. IF YOUR HAMMER HAS THE SLIDING CROSS BOLT SAFETY OR SELECTOR ON THE HAMMER, ALWAYS BE CERTAIN THE SAFETY IS IN THE SAFE POSITION UNTIL YOU ARE READY TO FIRE.



Trigger Adjustment instructions.

http://specialtypistols.infopop.cc/Articles/sp40.pdf

Owners manual with decocking instructions.

http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIR..._contender.pdf

general lockup info

http://www.lasc.us/BellmContenderMisfires.htm

[megasupermagnum]

Well mine has to go back to TC anyway, as while adjusting my trigger stop screw, my hammer spur broke off while dry firing. I'll see what they do about the hammer dropping. Mine is the original Contender. I sought that out specifically as I was told the pre-easy open Contenders had fantastic triggers. Mine is very much in the underwhelming category at around 4.5 pounds. The first trip to TC to have a barrel fitted, I was almost certain they would convert it to easy open. They did not, and mine is still original. Is there any disadvantage to the easy open? At this point I'm just looking to sell it, is it worth more left original?

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I've seen an older (70's?) Contender (not mine) accidentally discharge 2x with 2 different shooters, 20 years apart. I believe what was happening is the trigger was not resetting properly when the previously fired empty case was removed. So when the shooter attempted to cock the hammer, it was not caught in a notch and subsequently dropped on a live round. A hammer block should have prevented this, but didn't in both cases. Not sure if the block wasn't present, or defective. I google searched for a recall, but found none.

[megasupermagnum]

I've seen an older (70's?) Contender (not mine) accidentally discharge 2x with 2 different shooters, 20 years apart. I believe what was happening is the trigger was not resetting properly when the previously fired empty case was removed. So when the shooter attempted to cock the hammer, it was not caught in a notch and subsequently dropped on a live round. A hammer block should have prevented this, but didn't in both cases. Not sure if the block wasn't present, or defective. I google searched for a recall, but found none.

That kind of thing really scares me. I try and be safe, but there seems to be a list a mile long of things you need to keep track of on the Contender. The Encore has none of these problems. No big deal. I can sell mine for what I paid, and it was a fun try.

[M-Tecs]

Well mine has to go back to TC anyway, as while adjusting my trigger stop screw, my hammer spur broke off while dry firing.

[M-Tecs]

I've seen an older (70's?) Contender (not mine) accidentally discharge 2x with 2 different shooters, 20 years apart. I believe what was happening is the trigger was not resetting properly when the previously fired empty case was removed. So when the shooter attempted to cock the hammer, it was not caught in a notch and subsequently dropped on a live round. A hammer block should have prevented this, but didn't in both cases. Not sure if the block wasn't present, or defective. I google searched for a recall, but found none.

Interesting that the same owner is having 20 years of issues without getting them resolved. More interesting is when the original Contender is fired the hammer is down. When you break the action the hammer is not recocked. When the action opens the hammer does move about 1/10th of an inch so the hammer block is in position and the first sear of the set trigger is reset. To fire the gun the hammer has to be manually cocked. You can both hear and feel when the second sear engages. I shoot a lot of guns with manual hammers. When I cock them I have never pulled them back and just let them go. Short of just letting the hammer go I am having a very hard time understanding how you can get an AD with this system.

[M-Tecs]

Well mine has to go back to TC anyway, as while adjusting my trigger stop screw, my hammer spur broke off while dry firing. I'll see what they do about the hammer dropping. Mine is the original Contender. I sought that out specifically as I was told the pre-easy open Contenders had fantastic triggers. Mine is very much in the underwhelming category at around 4.5 pounds. The first trip to TC to have a barrel fitted, I was almost certain they would convert it to easy open. They did not, and mine is still original. Is there any disadvantage to the easy open? At this point I'm just looking to sell it, is it worth more left original?

Whether the older or later easy open version the Contenders all had the same trigger mechanism (G2's use the Encore trigger system). The original Contender is a system that uses two sears and in reality it is a set trigger. That is why you don't need nor should you cock the hammer to dry fire. If the hammer is cocked when you open it will fall to the hammer block.

The easy open system did as claimed. It allow less force to open the action. Nothing more.

As to the trigger pull weight as a set trigger is should be very crisp and easily adjustable to about 2 pounds. If you want to go less than two pounds I would recommend doing the mods talked about here.

http://www.lasc.us/bellmTCTriggerJob.htm

S&W does not support the older Contenders and they stopped doing easy open conversions at least 10 years ago. They may or may not have a replacement hammer and they may want to charge you a couple of hundred dollars if they do since they don't honor the original lifetime warranty.

[megasupermagnum]

They fixed mine for free the first time. I forget what they replaced. A locking block maybe? I don't think it was the locking lugs on the barrel. I didn't pay a cent.

I don't mean to say the Contender is bad, but the list of things you need to learn to use one is astounding. This is a single shot handgun. It shouldn't need a book to operate.

[JimB..]

I think you’re making a good decision to sell it. Most people have no problem operating them safely, I have several, but it’s obviously not for you.

[M-Tecs]

I don't mean to say the Contender is bad, but the list of things you need to learn to use one is astounding. This is a single shot handgun. It shouldn't need a book to operate.

I purchased my first one in 1973 or 1974 as a 13 or 14 year old. Read the owners manual once. It's short sweet and covers 99% of what the normal users need. http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIR..._contender.pdf

The older one piece locking lugs would lockup if not fitted properly. They switched to a two piece split design that fixed 99% of these issues. My guess is that is what they replaced.

After I started working on them I needed more detailed info but the original owners manual covers everything the average owner needs in a couple of pages.

[megasupermagnum]

I think you’re making a good decision to sell it. Most people have no problem operating them safely, I have several, but it’s obviously not for you.

No, it's not a bad gun, but not what I'm looking for. The only way to find out was to try it.

[Walks]

I guess I must by doing something wrong, cause I've never had a problem as described. Mine is a mid-90's gun, with bbl's going back to early 1980's. Had about 10,000rds thru it. From .22LR to .35Rem & 7mmTCU. Have no trouble opening it, and I had the trigger/action worked over by a Knowledgeable friend. I Don't dry fire it, and keep the firing pin in the middle position as my friend suggested. Only move it when ready to fire.

[M-Tecs]

I guess I must by doing something wrong, cause I've never had a problem as described. Mine is a mid-90's gun, with bbl's going back to early 1980's. Had about 10,000rds thru it. From .22LR to .35Rem & 7mmTCU. Have no trouble opening it, and I had the trigger/action worked over by a Knowledgeable friend. I Don't dry fire it, and keep the firing pin in the middle position as my friend suggested. Only move it when ready to fire.

I wished I had kept better records with mine. I have 6 or 7 frames and a bunch of barrels. I know which one is my first is and that one has a lot of rounds through it. I have two frames that have less than 500 rounds through them. Shot a lot of prairie dogs with a couple. Total round count is significant but I don't have a clue as to round count on each frame. The only one I sold was my 357 Herrett to a bubby that just had to have it for deer hunting. I have several 22 Hornet barrels that I may sell at some point since I shoot them very little.

[Shawlerbrook]

The Contender is no more difficult to operate than an old single action handgun or levergun. I have had them since the 70’s with zero problems.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Interesting that the same owner is having 20 years of issues without getting them resolved. More interesting is when the original Contender is fired the hammer is down. When you break the action the hammer is not recocked. When the action opens the hammer does move about 1/10th of an inch so the hammer block is in position and the first sear of the set trigger is reset. To fire the gun the hammer has to be manually cocked. You can both hear and feel when the second sear engages. I shoot a lot of guns with manual hammers. When I cock them I have never pulled them back and just let them go. Short of just letting the hammer go I am having a very hard time understanding how you can get an AD with this system.

Yes, I believe the hammer was dropped both times. I don't think the owner shoots it much. The first time it happened, he wan't present and I was a teenager. I didn't know much about guns at the time and assumed my buddy's thumb had slipped off the hammer while he was cocking it. The second time was last month when I had the owner drag out the old Contender for a couple of shots. He ADed it this time. At this point, I examined it's function carefully and determined that if the action was fully opened after each shot, the hammer cocked normally and there was no problem.

[rking22]

If the trigger is mis adjusted it can slip the sear if the action is slammed shut. This sets up the same condition as cocking then lowering the hammer by riding it down after a trigger pull. The hammer is sitting on the firing pin , pin in contact with the primer. Bad bad bad situation! If you just yank the hammer back assuming it will be held by the sear, note that word “assume “. It WILL fire just like you were holding the trigger and slipping the hammer on a peacemaker. The original, first release with the rotary cf/rf selector in the hammerface has no “safety”. They added the “safety” with the second change to the one with the selector lever on top of the hammer. Center position has a pin holding the hammer back( I don’t trust it, single point of failure). These guns are not for the person who is even slightly distracted when handling, I will sell my two before I exit this plane, but just barely. Mine are a 1xxx and 445xx serial numbers, 1st design. They are the only guns that I will not pass to my kids, they are very sweet guns but VERY unforgiving. Very powerful chambering, short length compromising muzzle awareness can be a very bad learning experience.
If I remember correctly, my 1975 manual said to open the action to decock , that is trusting memory. Always, after closing mine, I ease the hammer back till it is off the hammer block, then slowly lower to be sure the hammer block did not drop. Same as when putting my flint longrifle on half cock, or a 94 on halfcock. Don’t want them on top of the notch, you don’t want the hammer on the contender holding the hammer block. Has to be the other way roun.

[megasupermagnum]

If the trigger is mis adjusted it can slip the sear if the action is slammed shut. This sets up the same condition as cocking then lowering the hammer by riding it down after a trigger pull. The hammer is sitting on the firing pin , pin in contact with the primer. Bad bad bad situation! If you just yank the hammer back assuming it will be held by the sear, note that word “assume “. It WILL fire just like you were holding the trigger and slipping the hammer on a peacemaker. The original, first release with the rotary cf/rf selector in the hammerface has no “safety”. They added the “safety” with the second change to the one with the selector lever on top of the hammer. Center position has a pin holding the hammer back( I don’t trust it, single point of failure). These guns are not for the person who is even slightly distracted when handling, I will sell my two before I exit this plane, but just barely. Mine are a 1xxx and 445xx serial numbers, 1st design. They are the only guns that I will not pass to my kids, they are very sweet guns but VERY unforgiving. Very powerful chambering, short length compromising muzzle awareness can be a very bad learning experience.
If I remember correctly, my 1975 manual said to open the action to decock , that is trusting memory. Always, after closing mine, I ease the hammer back till it is off the hammer block, then slowly lower to be sure the hammer block did not drop. Same as when putting my flint longrifle on half cock, or a 94 on halfcock. Don’t want them on top of the notch, you don’t want the hammer on the contender holding the hammer block. Has to be the other way roun.

This is true. The Contender is a very specialized frame, and is not forgiving. That is the word I've been looking for. As long as I keep things under ideal conditions, and keep all of these safety considerations in mind, the Contender would be fine. I simply do not trust my self.

The only thing I would add is mine is the original Contender. Mine has the rotary selector that uses a screwdriver, and mine also has the "safety". It is just a nub that sticks out and mechanically blocks the hammer from touching the firing pin.

[megasupermagnum]

The Contender is no more difficult to operate than an old single action handgun or levergun. I have had them since the 70’s with zero problems.

All you have to do is pull the hammer back and pull the trigger on those. There are MANY more steps and considerations to operating a Contender. The flintlock comparison is a good one.