Possible danger with Contender

[M-Tecs]

If the trigger is mis adjusted it can slip the sear if the action is slammed shut. This sets up the same condition as cocking then lowering the hammer by riding it down after a trigger pull. The hammer is sitting on the firing pin , pin in contact with the primer. Bad bad bad situation!

I agree on your first two points after that not some much. First we agree if you adjust the trigger too light you can trip the first sear by slamming the action shut. Second we agree if you hold the trigger back and you lower the trigger manually the hammer will be resting on the firing.

Now for the area of disagreement. Jarring or pulling the trigger when the hammer is down does not result in the hammer resting on the firing pin.

When the hammer is down the hammer pressure is also holding the hammer block in place. If you pull the trigger or it is jarred off the hammer block is still in the up position holding the hammer of the firing pin. In this condition if you remove the hammer pressure from the hammer block the hammer block will retract and now the hammer will be resting on the firing pin. I tested this in the early 70's and due to this I opted for a full cover shoulder holster for hunting. Since that was a long time ago so I just tested a couple of mine to ensure my memory was correct.

The hammer also needs to be pulled to lower the hammer block. If the trigger is not pulled the hammer slipping when cocking will not fire the gun since the hammer block remains up.

[M-Tecs]

There are MANY more steps and considerations to operating a Contender.

Such as???????????????

[roadie]

All you have to do is pull the hammer back and pull the trigger on those. There are MANY more steps and considerations to operating a Contender. The flintlock comparison is a good one.

There's a couple of safety considerations with both an SAA and a lever gun........and really, it ain't like a person needs a University course to operate a Contender safely. If they don't have a manual, then get one.....it's part of being a responsible gun owner.

Every gun has it's quirks, it's up to the shooter to know what they are before playing with them.

[rking22]

The first ones had nothing but the rotary selector in the hammer nose, the “safety” was the first change , I guess. I am not a collector or expert on them, just been shooting them for 43 years. Another pitfall, is the adjustable trigger, everyone that gets one has to see how light they can get it! It’s a very good trigger, set it to about 3 lbs with good sear engagement and call it good. Anything less is a problem with cold fingers. I got my 4 digit frame at a gun shop because it was “broke” hammer wouldn’t stay back. I bought it for “parts” cheap. Went straight to our shooting spot, readjusted the trigger, stuck a barrel on it and it worked great. I did use it as parts, I just kept them together

[JimB..]

They are truly dangerous, the lot of them should be recalled. I really think you should take the opportunity to get them sold cheap before the rubes figure it out and stop buying them at any price.

Do me a favor though, shoot me a PM when you list them, just want to avoid them you know.

On a serious note, does anyone have any recollection of anyone shooting themselves, or anyone else for that matter, with a Contender?

[M-Tecs]

I got my 4 digit frame at a gun shop because it was “broke” hammer wouldn’t stay back. I bought it for “parts” cheap. Went straight to our shooting spot, readjusted the trigger, stuck a barrel on it and it worked great. I did use it as parts, I just kept them together

And that covers 99% of the issue with Contenders. The Contender was one of the first Erector Set guns. Everyone and there brother that got one tended to mess with them. A lot of these folks never read the very basic manual nor had they ever worked on any of their other firearms but they did manage to create a lot of issues.

[M-Tecs]

On a serious note, does anyone have any recollection of anyone shooting themselves, or anyone else for that matter, with a Contender?

See post #14 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...nd-older-model

[rking22]

M-Tex’s , You are correct the hammer is still holding the block in place, as I stated farther down. Just that this is a “land mine” waiting to bite. All it takes is a brush against the hammer to unseat that block, leaving the condition described. Can happen when holstering it. Same condition as leaving a 94 or side lock with the sear on the half cock notch and not seated in the notch. Looks ok, but lift the hammer a hair and the sear( or hammer block) drops away and you have a possible AD.
Not wanting to argue, just explaining my point. You are correct, but a bit more attention and there is a lot more security. As you stated, the trigger should always be covered, It may not go bang instantly, but with that sear tripped, it is now primed for disaster. Could be hours later.
As a side note, I do NOT consider them to be an unsafe design, no more so than the original peacemaker or an original 94 , or a Rem 700 trigger! But look what (de) evolution has necessitated to those fine designs. If “gun fixers” would leave them alone and users pay attention all is good with the world. I have all of the above cited examples, in their unadulterated form, all is good.

[M-Tecs]

Always, after closing mine, I ease the hammer back till it is off the hammer block, then slowly lower to be sure the hammer block did not drop. Same as when putting my flint longrifle on half cock, or a 94 on halfcock. Don’t want them on top of the notch, you don’t want the hammer on the contender holding the hammer block. Has to be the other way roun.

How does what you are doing change or improve anything?

[rking22]

If the sear slipped you will feel and hear the block drop and can open and reset. Then go fix it . Just something I do, think it it like a preflight check

[JimB..]

See post #14 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...nd-older-model

Thanks, I had not.

[Buzz Krumhunger]

They are truly dangerous, the lot of them should be recalled. I really think you should take the opportunity to get them sold cheap before the rubes figure it out and stop buying them at any price.

Do me a favor though, shoot me a PM when you list them, just want to avoid them you know.

On a serious note, does anyone have any recollection of anyone shooting themselves, or anyone else for that matter, with a Contender?

Several years ago I read of a gunshop employee negligently shooting a customer with a Contender he was “working on”, I think this took place in Salida or Buena Vista Colorado. Employee apparently thumbed the hammer back on a decocked Contender, assuming the sear would hold it, and when he turned loose of it the pistol went off. I have no idea why the gun was loaded.

[dale2242]

We had a police officer shoot himself through the outside edge of his right calf with a 22LR while shooting a silhouette match Creedmoor style.
He got the muzzle too far back and shot about a inch into and through his leg.
Boy, was he embarrassed.....dale

[EDG]

There was a guy in East Texas (I think) who was found dead in his golf cart or ATV.
His Contender apparently was dropped out of the vehicle, hit the ground and killed him.
He was making a run from his house to the mail box.

They are truly dangerous, the lot of them should be recalled. I really think you should take the opportunity to get them sold cheap before the rubes figure it out and stop buying them at any price.

Do me a favor though, shoot me a PM when you list them, just want to avoid them you know.

On a serious note, does anyone have any recollection of anyone shooting themselves, or anyone else for that matter, with a Contender?

[megasupermagnum]

Such as???????????????

In my case you have to close the barrel with authority (wont cock if closed softly), make sure the selector is on centerfire or rimfire, make sure the hammer safety is off, make sure you hold correctly (You can't two hand hold a contender), and then pull the trigger. And don't dry fire? I mean really, a modern gun you cant dry fire or the hammer snaps in half? Good greif.

If it doesn't go off you have to be very careful to lower the hammer, or it might go off when you open it. You have to open the gun, or the hammer is resting on the firing pin and it might go off. If you lower the hammer, as is VERY COMMON practice for target shooting and hunting, you have to open the gun again or it might go off. Best case you loose the next animal because it won't cock.

Instead of trying to roast me, just shoot me an offer. Or keep an eye on S&S section. It will be a few weeks though, as it needs to go back to TC for repair. It still shoots, but the hammer spur is shorter now.

[rking22]

I two hand mine all the time, don’t understand that issue??You can dry fire, just no need to cock the hammer, so no chamber perming, good feature. Browning Medalists have dry fire function, doesn’t peen the chamber. Actually slamming them to close is not good, yours may have been mistreated in the past. Close firmly, a feel that comes quickly. Now I did get a click once when I changed barrels from 22 LR to 357 Herrera to go hunting. Forgot to twist the selector, but you aren’t going from 22 to 357herret on many modern firearms that easily and holding zero. On me, added that to my preflight checklist too! If you want to decock, pull the open lever. Ride the hammer if you want, I do I hate the “snap” of decockers anyway. If you don’t like it then move it along, but be sure you aren’t just pissed with it at the moment. They are superb guns, just got a personality, known some girls like that

Not trying to roast you at all, they have a learning curve. I actually have been considering another to dedicate to a carbine, I’ll be watching as.

[megasupermagnum]

Isn't using the open lever to decock dry firing? They do have a learning curve. I was after a stone simple single shot like the Encore or H&R's. The Contender simply is not that. It's not a big deal.

As for two hand holding, you can't wrap your support hand around like any other handgun (including the Encore). I've seen where some use the Contender as a bench only gun, and "taco hold" the scope. Some hold them like a rifle without a stock. I myself kind of rest my second hand over my first, and put my fingers over the opening lever.

[dannyd]

I have put over 30,000 rounds on my two frames. No problems in 30 years.

[M-Tecs]

Instead of trying to roast me, just shoot me an offer. Or keep an eye on S&S section.

Not trying to roast you just correcting the misinformation you are spreading.

1. The Contender loading and safety operation is less complicated than operation a O/U or SXS shotgun with automatic safeties. Yes you have to close them it with authority, select which barrel you want to fire and set the safety to fire. In the case of the Contender the safety is not automatic so you don't have to mess with it so it's actually less complicated.

2. Can't two hand hold it?????????????????? LOL. Lots of two handed grip positions that are very effective with the Contender that don't use the trigger guard in the hold. Yes the owners manual states not to rest or use the trigger guard in the hold but that does not preclude using a variety of two hand holds. Same holds that work for the Encore work for the Contender.

3. The Contender is a set trigger firearm. You dry fire it the same as any other set trigger firearm. When you break the action it sets the trigger and you dryfire it. Why would you cock the hammer? This is no different than dry firing set trigger sidelock like a Hawken. If you cock the hammer on these when you dryfire you will damage the nipple if you don't have cap on it.

4. Decocking per the manual sound complicated but it not really anymore complicated any other firearm of this type. The manual says to use the safety like all manuals do. I don't use the safety to decock. I just hold the hammer back with my thumb and I use my middle finger to activate the hammer spur.

Hopefully S&W will fix it for free so you get your full value. If not I am looking for a parts gun. Either way if you decide to sell you shouldn't have a problem selling it here.

[M-Tecs]

Isn't using the open lever to decock dry firing?

Pulling the trigger is dryfiring. In the case of the Contender to dryfire you do not to nor should you cock the hammer to dryfire you just pull the trigger spur back to set the trigger than you pull the trigger and repeat as long as you want. When decocking you never let the hammer fail freely. The hammer block will prevent it from firing but its hard on the gun.