Down-loading .38 special

[Mr_Flintstone]

I really like plinking with .38 Long Colt loads in my .38 Specials. I can achieve the same loads in .38 Special cases using Trail Boss, but my supply is running low, and the local gun store hasn’t had it on the shelves for a while. After looking at the data on Hodgdon, I can achieve pretty much the same results in 158 gr cast with HP-38/231 as 150 grain Long Colt. My problem is with 125 gr cast bullets. I’m having trouble finding a load that will approach the slow 772 ft/s of the Long Colt.

I have Titegroup, 231, Autocomp, Bullseye, Unique, 2400, IMR-4227, and Win 296. I assume the 296 is a no-go, and probably 2400 and 4227. Can any of the other powders be down-loaded safely enough to achieve 125 gr Long Colt velocities until I can find some more Trail Boss?

[Silvercreek Farmer]

A starting load of Bullseye should do the trick.

[Mr_Flintstone]

Where did you find the Bullseye data? The current Alliant data doesn’t show Bullseye in 125 gr cast.

[Texas by God]

Use the starting load for the next heaviest bullet in the manual that does list Bullseye. Load one cartridge and test fire it first.

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[dverna]

I have used 2.7-3.0 gr of 231 with 125-130 gr cast. It is not listed so use at your own risk. My "go to" load for CAS with the same bullets was 2.7 gr of Clays because I used Clays for 12 ga reloads. I have shot over 30k rounds with the 2.7 gr Clays load in both pistol and rifle and never had a stuck bullet.

There should be no ill effect using fast powders with charges below what is on the manufactures web sites.

[reddog81]

Unfortunately the current data on Alliant's website is sorely lacking. Whoever is in charge of their load data should be fired and replaced with someone who cares about shooting sports.

I have a digital version of the Lyman #48 and it shows 2.8 BE with a 120 grain cast bullet. Just pay attention to the target and make sure the bullet is leaving the barrel and you want run into any problems with that load. You can probably even drop down a few 1/10's without issue but you'd have to watch and make sure the bullet is making it out the barrel reliably.

[Outpost75]

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition (2010) on p. 255 lists start load in .38 Special with #356242 (120 grains #2 alloy) at 1.45" OAL with 2.8 grains Bullseye for 690 fps at 8,600 cup.

[Larry Gibson]

Data is that chronographed by me and also is listed in Lyman #4 CBH. I use 3.2 gr Bullseye to push a 125 gr cast along at 750 - 775 fps in the 38 SPL from 5 and 6" barreled revolvers.

[Mr_Flintstone]

Thanks a bunch guys. It looks like Bullseye may be my go to powder for these until I can get some more Trail Boss.

[gwpercle]

After using Bullseye with lead boolits in your target loads ....you just might throw rocks at Trail Boss.

Any cast lead wadcutter from 140gr. to 160 gr. over 2.7 grains of Bullseye in 38 special will be quite accurate and pleasant to shoot .... It's magical !
Gary

[Mr_Flintstone]

Update... I just loaded some test loads with 2.8 gr Bullseye and 125 gr TCFP Hi-Tek bullets from Missouri Bullet Co, and shot them from my 4” Model 19. They were almost identical to my 38 LC loads, and at 30 ft they all hit within 1.5” from POA. The only downside is dirty cases and a little unburned powder after shooting. I’m thinking that the next time I may up it to 3.0 grains and see what happens.

[atr]

I have a very old COlt .38 DA which was my Grandfathers. I don't want to abuse the old revolver so for many years I have been shooting 125 cast with 3.0 gr of Bullseye, a very fun load.
atr

[reddog81]

Update... I just loaded some test loads with 2.8 gr Bullseye and 125 gr TCFP Hi-Tek bullets from Missouri Bullet Co, and shot them from my 4” Model 19. They were almost identical to my 38 LC loads, and at 30 ft they all hit within 1.5” from POA. The only downside is dirty cases and a little unburned powder after shooting. I’m thinking that the next time I may up it to 3.0 grains and see what happens.

Well that was quick!!! Any loads that light will be dirty. That's the price you pay for real light loads. I'd guess 3.0 will still be fairly dirty with a 125 grain bullet, but it really doesn't matter that much. The worst that can happen is that unburnt powder can get stuck under the extractor and cause problems. A little unburnt powder on your shooting bench won't hurt anything and dirty cases clean up easy enough.

[JoeJames]

Well that was quick!!! Any loads that light will be dirty. That's the price you pay for real light loads. I'd guess 3.0 will still be fairly dirty with a 125 grain bullet, but it really doesn't matter that much. The worst that can happen is that unburnt powder can get stuck under the extractor and cause problems. A little unburnt powder on your shooting bench won't hurt anything and dirty cases clean up easy enough.

I have read many comments over the years that 3 grains of Bullseye under about any boolit is a good load. Under 148 grain Wad cutters I usually shoot 3.1 grains. I looked back at my notes, and with 158 grain SWC's I have found 3.8 grains is the most accurate. Here are my notes - shooting a S&W 4" Model 15, and a S&W Model 67 no dash:

Test of new Speer 158 grain 38 cal. lead swaged SWC’s

Old load of hard cast 160 grain swc’s, over 3.8 grains of Bullseye: 823, 833, 830, 820, 849, 820 = avg: 830 fps.

New load - Speer swaged swc’s over 3.8 grains of Bullseye, = Model 15 & Model 67: 763, 782, 773, 774, 760, 784, 783, 792, 791 = average 778 fps.

[dverna]

Put a good crimp on the bullet to increase pressure and get a better powder burn.

[Froogal]

I have given up finding the powder I want, when I want it, from any gun store. I buy it on line and have it delivered right to my door.

[jonp]

I run very light Red Dot/Promo loads with a 125gr cast in several of my pistols and they are pretty clean although my preferred target is a 148gr WC

[tazman]

Recently I ran some experiments with the Lee 125 RNFP using light loads of Bullseye and Titegroup. I used 2.8 of Bullseye and 2.9 of Titegroup.
Both loads gave excellent results and shot to the same POI as full charge 38 Special loads with 158 grain boolits did in several of my revolvers.
Good accuracy. Very little dirt with Titegroup. A great practice load.

[jsizemore]

My Universal powder slide is set for 3 grains of Bullseye which I've put behind 115,125,135 and 148 gr. cast bullets. They shoot great from a 1.875" bodyguard to a 6" target masterpiece.

[Mr_Flintstone]

Recently I ran some experiments with the Lee 125 RNFP using light loads of Bullseye and Titegroup. I used 2.8 of Bullseye and 2.9 of Titegroup.
Both loads gave excellent results and shot to the same POI as full charge 38 Special loads with 158 grain boolits did in several of my revolvers.
Good accuracy. Very little dirt with Titegroup. A great practice load.

I read somewhere once (don’t know if it was true or not) that Titegroup and Bullseye were virtually twins, and that light loads could be interchanged a lot of the time. I was always afraid to try though.