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Thread: Muzzleloading hunting has officially gone too far!

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Muzzleloading hunting has officially gone too far!

    I was never one to look down on those who use inline ignition muzzleloaders. I own them, and use them. I can fully understand why some want to keep it more historically accurate, but that opens a whole can of worms. I always said, as long as it loads from the muzzle, it is a muzzle loader. While some of the new wizz bang products out there can expedite the learning curve, inline rifles still face many of the same challenges as any side lock. I always felt pelletized powder is nipping on the edge of what is proper, but I let people do their own thing, plus pelletized powder is inferior in every way except convenience.

    Today I found a new product from Federal, called FireStick. https://www.federalpremium.com/firestick.html

    I read it, and immediately felt sick to my stomach. That is blatantly a breech loading cartridge. I'll be writing the MN DNR for sure. While it may not seem like much to the hardcore traditionalists, I like to keep muzzleloader equipment up to the individual. But this insults that openness. I'll recommend that the definition be changed such that it reads "a muzzleloader is a firearm that powder and projectile are loaded by hand from the muzzle".

    Currently the MN regulations read "The muzzleloader (long gun or handgun) used cannot be loaded at the breech (muzzleloading revolvers are not legal for taking big game). So this new cartridge may not even be legal here to begin with, which is a relief.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master trails4u's Avatar
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    Yeah..... I hate it.
    "Do not follow where the path might lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" Ralph Waldo Emerson

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    I can only say I agree with you 100%. I can't even think of anything to add. This doesn't say much about the company offering it. I'll pass on anything they sell at this point.

  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    Wow.
    Now who came up with that , and can call that a muzzle loader.
    That ain't much different than taking a 45/70 , loading the casing Full of black powder , then shoving a projectile down the barrel.

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master



    M-Tecs's Avatar
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    It's the slippery slope that was created from going from a primitive season to a muzzle loading season. Same thing with crossbows.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    "Before you argue with someone, ask yourself, is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives? Because if not, there’s absolutely no point."

    – Amber Veal

  6. #6
    Hey Guys,

    I'm kind of a Traditionalist myself, even though I shoot a Sabot in a 1:32 twist barrel.
    Here in Minnesota, one must load through the muzzle with Black Powder or a Substitute Black Powder (not smokeless).
    It is a Muzzleloader season, not a Primitive Weapon season here, even though some wish it was.
    We can use a scope (with failing eyes would be a plus), Inline, Under Hammer or Side Lock.
    A Sharps Percussion is not legal (as it loads from breach), nor would the above linked rifle.
    However, both mentioned rifles would be perfectly legal for the Regular Firearm Season, so they're not just sitting in the closet.

    AntiqueSledMan.

  7. #7
    Boolit Bub
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    In my state, any gun that does not use fixed ammunition is legal now. That opens the door to Sharps, Smith, Starr, Gallahger, and that new train wreck. I'm ok hunting with a Sharps etc, as they are black powder and your average yayhoo won't even know what they are but that new thing is just wrong. I asked our DNR what was up with that and the response I got was that the deer harvest wasn't as high as they would like due to lack of hunters in the woods. They still have a fairly large number of licenses issued, but folks actually going into the woods, not as much as in the past.
    A man cannot have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition.
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    Palmetto Sharpshooters
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    NRA Muzzleloading Instructor

  8. #8
    Boolit Master
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    If you want your state to do something then just petition for things like a flintlock season, iron sights only. Sidelock only. Black powder only (no subs). Plenty of ways to do this if your state is interested. But, like mentioned above, some areas it is difficult to get people to actually harvest enough animals, regardless of how many tags are issues.

    I stopped hunting years ago just because of how crowded it was even during muzzle loader season.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
    idahoron's Avatar
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    It is illegal in Idaho from the start.

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    I don't hunt much with a ML, simply, I hate to clean them. So I have no use whatsoever for the Firestick thing, that you have to purchase and use proprietary rifle and shells. My 12 ga and Henry rifle do a good job for me. BTW, in MI this past ML season, you were allowed to use any firearm that was legal for deer hunting.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Tecs View Post
    It's the slippery slope that was created from going from a primitive season to a muzzle loading season. Same thing with crossbows.
    yup, +1
    besides, the inlines as they are with sabots, powerbelts, pellet powder, primers, they are already equal to 45-70.
    May was well call it a single shot 45-70.
    why need that?

  12. #12
    Boolit Master

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    Kinda' like the paper cartridge I use in my Sharps .52/.54 caliber Berdan.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  13. #13
    Boolit Master


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    There are states that need to increase the deer harvest so I see things changing. Fewer people are hunting and the fear of CWD and TB has caused some states to ban baiting, further reducing the number of deer taken.

    If it is legal, why the angst? I do not like seeing ARs during rifle season but that is my problem. BTW, I have ARs and choose not to use them on deer...it is a personal thing. My choice does not make me "better" just more traditional.

    Does this offer an unfair advantage? Excuse what may be an obvious question, but I do not ML.
    Don Verna

    NRA Endowment Member

  14. #14
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    If it dropped down the bore from the muzzle, and then you loaded a 209 primer from the breech plug I think it would be much better received overall.

    I can see the advantage of a consistent load increasing accuracy, my White inline really perked up when I started using pyrodex pellets as opposed to loose powder. I am not a traditional ML kinda guy, I just used the inline to harvest an early deer and for that, the improvement in accuracy worked well.
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throat reaming? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? Shoot me a PM! Also on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Cylinderhone-756429174391912/

  15. #15
    Boolit Master BigAlofPa.'s Avatar
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    We have a muzzleloader season in the fall. And then a flintlock season in the winter. Must be a flinter. No percussion and no scopes.
    One round at a time.
    Member of Valley Gun & Country Club. Elysburg Pa.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master
    Markopolo's Avatar
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    I personally, am way more interested in this "triple 8" powder??? what the heck is that?? a nitro smokeless powder?? a BP sub??? available?? gunna be? not gunna be?? what the heck is triple 8 powder?

    who cares about the new traditions system or federal cartridge packs... talk to me about the trip 8....

    marko
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

    I will love the Lord with all my heart, all my soul, and all my mind.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    Hunting is an individual experience to me. If someone wishes to use a gun that is different from mine, I don't care. We have plenty of deer here in Virginia. To each his own.

    However, before responding to this thread, I looked up the Virginia regulation, and I'm glad I did. Lots of guns I thought were legal are not.

    "Muzzleloader" means any firearm described in subdivision 3 of the definition of antique firearm in § 18.2-308.2:2.
    Any muzzle-loading rifle, muzzle-loading shotgun, or muzzle-loading pistol that is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and that cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subdivision, the term "antique firearm" shall not include any weapon that incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm that is converted into a muzzle-loading weapon, or any muzzle-loading weapon that can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breech-block, or any combination thereof.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master scattershot's Avatar
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    No way is that thing a muzzleloader.
    "Experience is a series of non-fatal mistakes"


    Disarming is a mistake free people only get to make once...

  19. #19
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Some early history on the cartridge guns and muaale loader transition from them. The early matches that were shot with he sharps, rolling blocks hepburns ect. The rifle had a primed case inserted some had powder some the [owder was poured in the muzzle, then a bullet seated from the muzzle. SOme of these shooters had a length of the barrel and even pushed bullets thru it to pre engrave them.

    I agree that most primitive muzzle loader seasons have drifted far from what was intended with the modern rifles. The inlines are no longer a vented system like the cap locks and flinters were. With the sabot bullets modern powders and pellets. But to each their own.

    I have thought states could should hace 2 seasons one muzzle loader, Ie the moderns and non traditional s and a primitive where the traditional s are allowed only. In this way the modern hunters with sabots pellets and sealed breeches have their time. The tradiotonalistwith Patched ball or bullet loose powder and horn or measure vented system, and such have theirs. In Ohio the longest deer season foes to archery, with cross bows and the modern compound they are much more effective also. A early season maybe a few eeks before firearms season for the traditional season would be great

  20. #20
    Boolit Master FergusonTO35's Avatar
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    It's not something that I would be interested in, but If it means that more people go hunting I'm all for it. Our state's herd needs SERIOUS thinning in many counties and, honestly, an additional modern gun season is the only way they are going to accomplish that. Reason is, being able to use a breech loader for deer before the weather gets bitterly cold is the only thing that is going to get more casual hunters who don't do archery into the woods. Not to mention the fact that many people simply cannot spend much time hunting during our rifle season which happens right before Thanksgiving and when businesses are gearing up for Christmas. Personally, I would like to see an additional nine day modern gun season in early October.
    Currently casting and loading: .32 Auto, .380 Auto, .38 Special, 9X19, .357 Magnum, .257 Roberts, .30 WCF, .45-70 Gov't.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check