380 in smaller 1911 frame

[nekshot]

Is the smaller 1911 frame 380's blowback? If not how much increase in performance can be had and still be safe? Not wanting dangerous loads only taking advantage of a better gun then the normal 380 blowback pistols.

[lefty o]

the browning 1911-380 is not blowback.

[Walks]

The old LLAMA XIII .380 wasn't either. I don't think. But it's been 40yrs since I shot one, of even seen one.

[35remington]

Since autoloader reliability is a balance between magazine spring strength and slide speed,’consider that even if otherwise safe too much bullet speed makes the gun more likely to malfunction.

Something to think about, anyway. Engineering limitations of the design can manifest themselves in various ways. This is true of almost any size autoloading pistol.

[nekshot]

Since autoloader reliability is a balance between magazine spring strength and slide speed,’consider that even if otherwise safe too much bullet speed makes the gun more likely to malfunction.

Something to think about, anyway. Engineering limitations of the design can manifest themselves in various ways. This is true of almost any size autoloading pistol.

Wow, so the mag spring is involved in this design. Glad to know because I know diddly squat about pistols. Trying not to be too old to learn.

[hpdrifter]

Springfield's 911 is a locked breech and I would guess that Sigs P238 and Kimbers Micros are also.

My 911 runs flawlessly.

[Groo]

Groo here
There is a tradeoff between locked breach and blowback.
The blowback design will be simpler,usually more reliable,and accurate.
The locked breach can take larger/heaver /higher pressure loads, But has more parts, and more things that move around.
The 380 and lower rounds have less kick and are usually in the lower pressure range.
Blowback will work fine , 9mm and up usually work better with locked breach.[but both ends use both actions]
In 380 I have a S&W and a walther PPK, have had a Burse and AMT all blowback, all worked well.

[35remington]

Well, magazine springs are a reliability feature or detriment in any pistol, really.

As slide speed increases from increased bullet speed the slide moves faster and bounces off the impact abutment harder and returns forward more quickly.

This tends to do two things. First, it increases the odds of inertial or impact related malfunctions. The feeding round gets jarred away from being held by the feed lips and is most likely to start occurring on the last or second to last round in the magazine. Second, the reduced time the slide takes to return forward increases the odds the slide will outrun the magazine.

Bolt over base misfeeds or live round stovepipes result.

[Texas by God]

The Colt Govt and Mustang .380s are locked breech.

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[JSH]

SIG Legion 238. Has ate everything factory I have fed it. From what I have rad they are some what of a clone of a Colt Mustang.

[Texas by God]

I’m going out on a limb here but maybe a micro 1911 .380 HAS to be a locked breech because the recoil spring UNDER the barrel isn’t strong enough like a bigger spring AROUND the barrel is?(Walter, Bersa, CZ)

[walnut1704]

I’m going out on a limb here but maybe a micro 1911 .380 HAS to be a locked breech because the recoil spring UNDER the barrel isn’t strong enough like a bigger spring AROUND the barrel is?(Walter, Bersa, CZ)

Good point.... but the Beretta 84's (and clones) are blowbacks with springs under the barrel.

[35remington]

The whole point of a locked breech gun is that instead of just having the slide as a moving mass, the barrel and slide are a moving mass. Sometimes this means the locked breech gun has a lighter spring if the combined barrel/slide weight is heavier than the slide of a blowback gun...sometimes.

It is true the smaller 380s are often locked breech. The slide don’t weigh much, there isn’t much room for a spring so the barrel needs to be added to the reciprocating mass to slow things down. So it is a combination of reduced mass and maybe less space for adequate springs working together to bring about that configuration in a small gun.

In addition, the locked breech guns feel like they have less recoil because the barrel is stopped first, then the slide impacts the frame abutment. The energy of the moving masses is delivered in two separate events rather than a single event. This delivers the recoil energy over a longer time frame and “feels” less.

[elmacgyver0]

Attachment 255719
Mini 1911s, Llama made them long before they became popular.
top left is .22LR blow back. Top right is .32acp blow back.
Bottom one is .380acp locked breech.

[FergusonTO35]

My Kimber Micro is a locked breech and a great shooter. Mine had some problems early on that Kimber took care of and has been great ever since. I don't think this pistol is a great choice for energetic ammo though, I have my Glock 42 for that!

[Texas by God]

Good point.... but the Beretta 84's (and clones) are blowbacks with springs under the barrel.

Doh! I thought that limb was skinny out there on the end haha

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[RU shooter]

Really don't think you'll gain any thing unless you load it past book data regardless the action might gain a little in a longer barrel , or just get a 9mm Makarov

[FergusonTO35]

I load my .380's a few tenths of a grain past the published max and get good results with no pressure signs.