Saving bullets

[oconeedan]

I'm still learning about the powder coating game. When I first started, I used HF red, and an old toaster oven. I verified the temp of the oven with a glass oven thermometer. Made lots of pc bullets...lots. Went to range, shot several guns with different loads, and was horrified to find pc coating my bores. It is a PIA to get out, believe me. WAY WORSE than any leading problems I have ever had.
I found out that while my toaster oven would reach over 400 degrees, it would not maintain 400 with a load of bullets. The bullets have a rough finish (which I thought was normal or ok), and passed the smash test, which I now realize isn't a great test. When firing in barrel, the pc gets left in the bore, and cooked on by subsequent firing.

Now the big question...I have replaced the toaster oven and verified it will maintain the temp over 400 with a full load of bullets. I have "re baked" some of the bullets, making sure the temp stayed over 400. The appearance of the powder coating did not change, it is still a bit rough. Of course, the smash test passes.
I am a bit gun shy about trying them again, but I have hundreds of bullets of several different types.
Do you think re-baking them will save the bullets, or should I cut my losses, toss them, and start over?

[Kraschenbirn]

Doubt that baking your boolits a second time made much improvement. Problem is once the powder has been heated to its flow point and then allowed to cool, it's as cured as it's gonna get. You might try a few of the 'reheated' to see if you're still getting fouling but be prepared to do some more bore cleaning.

If it were me, I'd dump all those partial cures into my 'smelting ' pot, melt 'em down, flux throroughly, and skim the trash off the top before pouring back into ingot molds. Btw: remelt should be done outdoors or under an 'industrial-strength' exhaust hood; fumes are really noxious!!

Bill

[blikseme300]

Do yourself a favor before coating again and get some good powder. Member Smoke4320 here sells quality powder at a very reasonable price and all of the powder he sells has been verified to work for the coating of CB's.

[rancher1913]

there is a reason you can not even give that crap harbor freight powder away. try reading the sticky on pc and use the tried and true methods, it will save you a boatload of headaches

[slide]

oconeedan, Check out the thread A.t.M.. What might help is to get yourself a digital thermometer with a thermocouple. Drill a hole in the base of a coated bullet about halfway in. Insert the thermocouple and secure with high heat aluminum tape. Put this bullet in with your bullets when baking. This way you will know what your bullet temp is. Those temp dials on convection ovens can be off a lot. The thermometers and thermocouples can be ordered off amazon. When the temp reaches what the mfg reccomends start a timer. For instance if your powder calls for 400F for 10 minutes. Watch your themometer,when it hits 400F start a countdown timer. You might have to adjust your temp dial during bake.

[P Flados]

there is a reason you can not even give that crap harbor freight powder away. try reading the sticky on pc and use the tried and true methods, it will save you a boatload of headaches

I call BS to the above.

I have used nothing but HF red for years and have been very pleased. Full power 327, 9mm, 357 magnums, 357 Maximums, 357AR max, 30 Herretts, 44 magnums shoot fine with no leading. I did have problems with 9mm, but eventually found that I was having "fit" issues due to boolits being squeezed down by the brass. The fix was a custom expander.

HF Red may be "not quite as easy" as some, but it kind of gets to me when I see unneeded and inappropriate bashing. HF Red played a big part in getting PC coating to the point where it is and for good reason.

If HF red is not working for you, there is a problem with how you are using it.

[oconeedan]

Thanks to all of your replies. Keep in mind, the HF Red was the first I tried because I had a store local to me, and I had not heard of Smokes 4320 at that time. I am not one to throw away product unless I feel it isn't working.
Kraschenbirn pretty much answered my question in his 2nd sentence above.
I do think my pc failure was caused mostly by the crappy old toaster oven I was using.
Dan

[Conditor22]

I'm with P Flados people treat HF red like they treat Lee. I started with HF red and got good results. When I got smokes and different powders, the results were easier to achieve.
failure can also be caused by dirty boolits.

I like his third line this is also true with some of Lees products.

[Hick]

Your bullets should not look rough with PC. Powder coating , properly done, produces a very nice smooth finish (which is why powder coating has been used for metal parts long before bullets). I haven't tried, HF-- but with Smokes powder my bullets are shiny & smooth-- and very tough.

[fredj338]

Yes HF powder is crap unless spraying, as are many of the Lee products. Sure it can work but just not as easy to get good results with. In the scheme of things, powder is cheap. The great thing about casting & coating your own is mistakes are just a time suck. I would melt them all & start over. Baking a bit hotter & longer is better than the opposite. Good tools make easy work. PC is just a tool.

[Onebad06vtx]

Anyone wanting to give that junk HF red away,Im your guy to take it!

[charlie b]

LOL, I could not get HF Red in our stores. So I went with a better brand.

Most of the reloading equipment I have used over 30 years is Lee. It may take a little tweaking but it works well at far less cost than the other brands. Yes, if I was loading a thousand rounds a month then I'd probably have the high end Dillon stuff, but, I don't. So the Lee stuff has done well for me.

I agree with the smelting idea. Better to use the lead up properly than throw them away.

[oconeedan]

OK guys, will smelt the bad bullets. Buy some Smokes.
BUT...I refuse to give up my LEE stuff. While I have equipment from all major manufacturers, and most of my equipment is green or blue, the LEE is not junk. They have some innovative ideas that I happen to like.

[slide]

Nothing wrong with Lee. I use quite a bit of it myself.

[Dragonheart]

Problem is once the powder has been heated to its flow point and then allowed to cool, it's as cured as it's gonna get.
Bill

Sorry Bill, but that statement is Wrong!

PC an object and cooking under 300 degrees (way past powder flow) then stopping the process and letting the object cool and recoating one or multiple times is called a "Partial Cure" and done quite often in the industry to add different colors or increase thickness and durability of the coating. After the final coat the object undergoes a full cure.

So Yes, you should be able to recoat the undercured bullets. I would even recoat those fully cured as the powder may stick and if it does it will bond, but not be as strong of a bond as a partial cure where the coats flow together.

[Dragonheart]

Lee makes some good products at very reasonable prices. However, in my experience their quality control is poor to say the least on their molds. Yeah, now someone is going to chime in saying I got a great Lee Mold, but realize someone else is going to say Yeah, you are right because I got a crappy one. This is what I mean about quality control, luck of the draw.

As far as I am concerned, Life is to short to go through it with a crappy mold.

[oconeedan]

Sorry Bill, but that statement is Wrong!

PC an object and cooking under 300 degrees (way past powder flow) then stopping the process and letting the object cool and recoating one or multiple times is called a "Partial Cure" and done quite often in the industry to add different colors or increase thickness and durability of the coating. After the final coat the object undergoes a full cure.

So Yes, you should be able to recoat the undercured bullets. I would even recoat those fully cured as the powder may stick and if it does it will bond, but not be as strong of a bond as a partial cure where the coats flow together.

They all were melted down and cast into ingots this afternoon.

[charlie b]

Lee makes some good products at very reasonable prices. However, in my experience their quality control is poor to say the least on their molds. Yeah, now someone is going to chime in saying I got a great Lee Mold, but realize someone else is going to say Yeah, you are right because I got a crappy one. This is what I mean about quality control, luck of the draw.

As far as I am concerned, Life is to short to go through it with a crappy mold.

I agree. But, I've never really had a crappy mold from Lee. That's out of 20 or so I've bought over the last 30 years. The most recent was this last fall and it was good too. The only real issue I have with some Lee molds is they tend to be smaller in dia than many are used to. Lee does this on purpose so that most of their bullets can be used without sizing. Not a bad thing until you need one that is a little bigger. I have lapped a couple to gain a little in dia.

PS if you have a crappy one send it back. Lee has done right by me several times when I have broken things.

[Dragonheart]

They all were melted down and cast into ingots this afternoon.

Sorry, I didn't see your post sooner. But since you will be starting fresh here are a couple of pointers you may already know: just throw away the HF powder, it is not worth the effort as I think you may have been trying to coat on a high humid day. I would recommend getting a sampler pack of powder from Smoke. Or order some solid colors from Prismatic Powder, not yellow, start with black, blues, greens.

Make sure your bullets are completely clean. Out of the mold I air cool, I don't do a water drop as any oil in the water and it is on your bullets.

Next make sure you oven will get to and hold 400 degrees, verified with a glass thermometer in the oven. Once the bullets are at 400 degrees give them a minimum of 12 minutes. Oven temperature is the temperature of the air and not the same as bullet temperature.

If you have any questions PM me.

[GregLaROCHE]

Don’t get discouraged. PC is great stuff. There is a learning curve as in most things. I have had really great luck with it, however, I’ve read a lot of posts by people having problems starting out. I’ve never used HF, but don’t throw it away. Get some of the better powders to start and later give the HF a try went you have more experience. It’s very important to keep your powder free of humidity. Store it at least in two plastic bags with all the air squeezed out. I add silica gel packs to mine. Good luck!