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Thread: LeeEnfield & Mosin Slug at .313

  1. #1

    LeeEnfield & Mosin Slug at .313

    So I have an M43 Mosins and a Lee Enfield (No4Mk1) that both slug at 0.313.

    Looking for recommendations for boolit to try before I go buy molds. Also have tons of questions about gas checks vs coatings, vs leading, etc.

    Looking to get started in a way that will put me on a good path without damaging the rifles or buying a bunch of stuff that ends up being incorrect.

    Have a single stage press (in case needed) and Lee Classic Loader tools for both 303 and 7.62x54R.

    Thanks
    Frank

  2. #2
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Order a mold to cast bullets THROAT diameter, NOT barrel groove. Cast your chamber. Read the sticky.

    Most likely you will need a bullet closer to .315-.316 rather than .313-.314"

    NOE and Accurate both make suitable molds of adequate diameter. I would opt for either the NOE clone of #316299 or Accurate 31-215B. I would also recommend conventional lubrication and gaschecks.
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  3. #3
    Boolit Master


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    I use a NOE clone of the 316299 in a 91/30 that slugs at .315.

    The NOE drops at .316+ with CWW + 1% Sn. The long nose of the boolit allows seating out far enough to reach the lands, and still fit the magazine (!).

    The problem I ran into shooting .316 boolits was the chamber spec's. The Mosin chamber spec is .338, and mine actually is that size, amazingly enough.

    With certain brass, the neck will be too thick to allow that fat boolit to chamber. I have resorted to turning the necks to .010" to allow the round to chamber.

    Something to think about..
    "Varium et mutabile semper femina." - Virgil
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    Order a mold to cast bullets THROAT diameter, NOT barrel groove. Cast your chamber. Read the sticky.

    Most likely you will need a bullet closer to .315-.316 rather than .313-.314"

    NOE and Accurate both make suitable molds of adequate diameter. I would opt for either the NOE clone of #316299 or Accurate 31-215B. I would also recommend conventional lubrication and gaschecks.
    I've gone through the sticky on "Chamber and throat" (note 1). Without the photos it's a bit more difficult to follow (I'm a visual learner), but I think I get the concept. Namely there's a section of the barrel ahead of the chamber and before the rifling starts, and that's the dimension I need.

    You said to "Order a mold to cast bullets THROAT diameter." Do you have a recommendation of where to go for such a mold?

    Thanks.

    Note 1: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...t-relationship

  5. #5
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Hell, I was there!

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    M43 Mosin?

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Fat fingers M44, maybe ?
    Hell, I was there!

  8. #8
    Boolit Grand Master


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    Actually, given MNs sometimes long tapered throat from the outside of the chamber case mouth. since your barrel measures .313 you get the 314299 and size at .314. Even then sometimes a .314 bullet in some thicker necked cases, as mentioned, can give chambering problems in some MNs. A chamber cast will give you the chamber neck diameter. That plus twice the case neck thickness will tell you what the max diameter of the loaded case neck can be for chambering.
    Larry Gibson

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  9. #9
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    Actually, given MNs sometimes long tapered throat from the outside of the chamber case mouth. since your barrel measures .313 you get the 314299 and size at .314. Even then sometimes a .314 bullet in some thicker necked cases, as mentioned, can give chambering problems in some MNs. A chamber cast will give you the chamber neck diameter. That plus twice the case neck thickness will tell you what the max diameter of the loaded case neck can be for chambering.
    "A chamber cast will give you the chamber neck diameter." quote by LG
    I agree with this.

    " That plus twice the case neck thickness will tell you what the max diameter of the loaded case neck can be for chambering".[/QUOTE]quote by LG.
    No it won't, max loaded neck diameter will be the OD of the chamber cast in the neck, although most want some clearance say at least .0005" per side or .001 total. What you suggest will create a loaded round .024" TOO large in diameter. (my brass has .012 thick necks)
    Hell, I was there!

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master


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    sweeler

    I was referring to the .314 diameter of the bullet plus "twice the brass thickness". That dimension [bullet diameter plus twice the neck thickness] compared to the diameter of the chamber neck [from the chamber cast] will tell if it is going to chamber. BTW; a total clearance of .001 is not required. A brass cylinder of .338 [case neck of .012 thickness with alloy .314 bullet in it] will chamber in a .338 chamber neck. I do that all the time in one of my MNs. Contrary to popular myth a cast bullet, even with GC, does not need case neck expansion the be pushed into the barrel throat without raising the psi. It actually slips right on out of the case and does not increase the psi ( I have tested that attempting to measured the increase) which is contrary to the other part of that commonly believed myth.
    Larry Gibson

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  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    Actually, given MNs sometimes long tapered throat from the outside of the chamber case mouth. since your barrel measures .313 you get the 314299 and size at .314. Even then sometimes a .314 bullet in some thicker necked cases, as mentioned, can give chambering problems in some MNs. A chamber cast will give you the chamber neck diameter. That plus twice the case neck thickness will tell you what the max diameter of the loaded case neck can be for chambering.

    LGibon
    This is what I was referring to
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  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master


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    swheeler

    No, I did not state it clearly in the post you quote from and it's obvious you're still confused. The "that" in that sentence you put in red refers to the bullet diameter as explained clearly to you in post #10. That post (#10) should have cleared any confusion up for you unless clearing up your apparent confusion isn't your intention(?).

    And, to further clear up some of your confusion, I do not go by "LGibson" on this forum or any other......
    Larry Gibson

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  13. #13
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin_m View Post
    I've gone through the sticky on "Chamber and throat" (note 1). Without the photos it's a bit more difficult to follow (I'm a visual learner), but I think I get the concept. Namely there's a section of the barrel ahead of the chamber and before the rifling starts, and that's the dimension I need.
    You can find videos on Youtube about chamber casting. It's not an overly complicated process, but I can certainly understand being a visual learner. A couple of videos may get you what you need. Might search "cerrosafe cast" or "cerrosafe mold" along with chamber cast to find what you're after.

  14. #14
    Boolit Master

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    The NOE clones of the 314 or 316299 are designated the 314-210-RN or the 316-213-RN.

    A pound cast of the chamber will tell you a lot. We have a sticky for that: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...rifle-chamber).

    Although I bought both, all three of my .303's ended up being happier with the .316 version. Figuring out your bore diameter as well as your groove will help as the nose sections of those two molds differ by a couple thou as well. Handy things to have for this are V-block micrometers for measuring bore slugs from 5-groove barrels like your No.4, and a pin gauge set for checking bore diameters and inside diameter of a fired case mouth. Without getting into extra purchases, finding a machinist with those tools you can bribe for a one-time use would get you to the heart of the matter.
    WWJMBD?

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  15. #15
    Thanks everyone. Getting ready to go on business trip, so I’ll do some web searching while I’m gone and see what I find on Cerro cast. The one I watched (iraqvet8888) did warned not to get it into the spots were the bolt lugs go ... “you’ll never get it out” was his exact words I think!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  16. #16
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check