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Thread: How accurate is a pistol?

  1. #41
    Boolit Grand Master



    M-Tecs's Avatar
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    Different type of pistol and different shooting technique but my Remington XP-100 6mm BR will hold 1 1/4" five shot group at 300 yards constantly.
    Last edited by M-Tecs; 01-23-2020 at 01:23 PM.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

  2. #42
    Boolit Master

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    Funny that the XP100 would come up.
    30 some years ago I was shooting prairie dogs with a guy who brought one along with him for just that purpose.
    After an hour of pot shooting prairie dogs before lunch, he put it away and went back to using his rifle.
    Setting there in camp he said he couldn't hit anything with the XP.
    I asked if I could try it.
    After 10 shots and 9 prairie dogs I suggested a better trigger and a higher magnification scope then the 4x he had on it.
    Last edited by Hickory; 01-23-2020 at 08:13 AM.
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  3. #43
    Boolit Grand Master
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    AS mentioned before the pistol is probably better than the operator. My 44mag Desert Eagle was capable of 50 yard groups of 1/2" on sandbag with an X2 scope. It would have been better yet with a decent trigger. Hickory mentioned a higher magnification scope and a better trigger which is necessary to obtain the most of the easier modifications that can be done.

  4. #44
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by arlon View Post
    .....

    Then there's that crazy random choke where the revolvers barrels are screwed to the frame. Getting a perfect one is like drawing lottery numbers. Want to drive yourself crazy, go buy a full set of pin gauges.

    (-:}
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  5. #45
    Boolit Master gnostic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hickory View Post
    Funny that the XP100 would come up.
    30 some years ago I was shooting prairie dogs with a guy who brought one along with him for just that purpose.
    After an hour of pot shooting prairie dogs before lunch, he put it away and went back to using his rifle.
    Setting there in camp he said he couldn't hit anything with the XP.
    I asked if I could try it.
    After 10 shots and 9 prairie dogs I suggested a better trigger and a higher magnification scope then the 4x he had on it.
    I have an XP-100 with a four power Leupold and can't shoot it worth crap. I put it on sandbags and can still see movement in the crosshairs at a hundred yards. I think this pistol would shoot great if I could get a better hold. The long eye relief scope is hard to use, the crosshairs move around and it blacks out altogether depending on the angle being viewed at...
    Last edited by gnostic; 01-23-2020 at 11:17 AM.

  6. #46
    Boolit Master
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    45 reponses so far.
    I will say this and it is based on many, many, many, many years of being a member of an outdoor range and also shooting on indoor ranges where I have had the opportunity to see many different levels of handgun shooters firing. From absolute beginners to High Master class NRA Bullseye shooters.
    Based on that experience I would say 80-85 percent of the accuracy of a handgun fired by the shooter, standing offhand (freehand if you so desire) with a two hand hold is the shooter themselves.
    Shooting from a rest rarely, if ever, has anything to do with how good a handgun shoots once in the shooters hands once they stand up and shooting on their feet holding the gun unsupported in their hands.
    Also many will have an extremely lucky day and they forget all about the bad shooting they have done in the past. How well one shoots should be based not on ones most lucky day or their most unlucky day. It should be based on what the shooter can do over and over consistantly.
    If this post is inappropriate please let me know. I will delete it if it is.
    We Know Mass Cannot Be Weighed But It Has Newtonian Weight And That Is Derived From Kilograms And Kilograms Can Be Converted to Pounds. But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed. But How is the kilograms obtained? Can Kilograms Be Weighed? Evidentally Yes It Can. But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed So Kilograms Must Not Exist. Funny Isn't It.
    One good thing out of this the next time I'm at the doctors and they want to weigh me I'll tell them mass cannot be weighed.

  7. #47
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    I can't do that. My hands move enough that the dime falls off before I even start the trigger squeeze. A steady, two handed hold for me has the sights wandering around nearly 2.5 inches at 10-12 yards.
    I just do the best I can.
    Over the last 5 years, due to weekly practice, I have improved from about 6 inches of movement to 2.5 so it is possible to get better.
    At my age, I don't expect to be a match grade shooter. Just good enough to hit the middle of a man sized silhouette at across the house distances. Practical accuracy.
    Every handgun I own is capable of much better accuracy than I can provide. I test them from a bagged rest. Even there, my eyes and movements don't let them perform at their best.
    I have seen really good shot with handguns. I am not one of them.
    I completely understand that. I'm not nearly as steady as I used to be. There are various other dryfire drills out there that may be better suited for you too. Im a USPSA competitor myself, I can easily say that practice is key to improvement. For example I practice draw to first shot drills. When starting it feels like you are at the limit to how fast you physically move your muscles. That seems like something that just is what it is. But with enough repetition that can improve too. You can change your physical attributes with enough training if you want to. Dont let that take your fun away though. You do you and pursue what makes you happy!
    ~ Chris


    Casting, reloading, shooting, collecting, restoring, smithing, etc, I love it all but most importantly, God, Family, The United States Constitution and Freedom...

    God Bless our Troops, Veterans and First Responders!

    Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas
    Accuracy, Power & Speed

  8. #48
    Boolit Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 44MAG#1 View Post
    45 reponses so far.
    I will say this and it is based on many, many, many, many years of being a member of an outdoor range and also shooting on indoor ranges where I have had the opportunity to see many different levels of handgun shooters firing. From absolute beginners to High Master class NRA Bullseye shooters.
    Based on that experience I would say 80-85 percent of the accuracy of a handgun fired by the shooter, standing offhand (freehand if you so desire) with a two hand hold is the shooter themselves.
    Shooting from a rest rarely, if ever, has anything to do with how good a handgun shoots once in the shooters hands once they stand up and shooting on their feet holding the gun unsupported in their hands.
    Also many will have an extremely lucky day and they forget all about the bad shooting they have done in the past. How well one shoots should be based not on ones most lucky day or their most unlucky day. It should be based on what the shooter can do over and over consistantly.
    If this post is inappropriate please let me know. I will delete it if it is.
    Since we can not consistently guarantee the accuracy or lack of on a day to day basis I see no merit in trying to boil it down to Joe blow can consistently shoot 96 out of 100. You get what you get. Some days are good and some not so good. Some days I can shoot well and others my arthritis makes it very painful and my score goes down the tubes. So am I a 50% shooter or a 90 %? depends on how you want to score it. I can live with I managed 90% today and next Tuesday I got 70%. to me thats easier to take than saying I'm a 80% shooter.

  9. #49
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6bg6ga View Post
    Since we can not consistently guarantee the accuracy or lack of on a day to day basis I see no merit in trying to boil it down to Joe blow can consistently shoot 96 out of 100. You get what you get. Some days are good and some not so good. Some days I can shoot well and others my arthritis makes it very painful and my score goes down the tubes. So am I a 50% shooter or a 90 %? depends on how you want to score it. I can live with I managed 90% today and next Tuesday I got 70%. to me thats easier to take than saying I'm a 80% shooter.
    Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I try to look on how good I shoot based in what I can do based on an extended basis.
    Someone else can do it their way.
    Remember an accidental Hole inOne does not make someone an excellent golfer. Just Lucky.
    We Know Mass Cannot Be Weighed But It Has Newtonian Weight And That Is Derived From Kilograms And Kilograms Can Be Converted to Pounds. But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed. But How is the kilograms obtained? Can Kilograms Be Weighed? Evidentally Yes It Can. But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed So Kilograms Must Not Exist. Funny Isn't It.
    One good thing out of this the next time I'm at the doctors and they want to weigh me I'll tell them mass cannot be weighed.

  10. #50
    Boolit Grand Master fredj338's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mytmousemalibu View Post
    If you want to know how good your trigger control is, do some dry fire drills like a dime drill.

    Place a dime flat & centered on your front sight. Take a firing position and manipulate the trigger and if you have smooth control (key to accuracy) the dime will still be there after the hammer drops.
    A very old drill that really only has an application for the slow fire bullseye guys. The target never lies. Your target, what ever the distance, will tell you if you have the three basics in hand; grip, sights, trigger press, at what ever your speed is..
    EVERY GOOD SHOOTER NEEDS TO BE A HANDLOADER.
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  11. #51
    Boolit Master
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    I never understood the coin drill. Every single handgun I own has a hammer strong enough to knock the coin off, even if the gun is set firmly on a rest. Is this just some impossible drill guys make beginners do to make them feel bad?

  12. #52
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I always assumed that a pistol is going to be accurate to 15-25-50 yards...
    So, I'm wondering if my thoughts on pistol accuracy is just because it is only as accurate as the shooter...
    Sure is a long post when you determined it is not the handgun ... IT'S YOU
    Regards
    John

  13. #53
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by megasupermagnum View Post
    I never understood the coin drill. Every single handgun I own has a hammer strong enough to knock the coin off, even if the gun is set firmly on a rest. Is this just some impossible drill guys make beginners do to make them feel bad?
    I have several handguns that I had tried this on some time ago and while not all would work, I certainly had success with it.

    I have a favorite live fire drill I like to do which can be done at any type of range. Its all about calling your shots. Put a nice shot up target over a fresh one. Take how ever many shots you feel comfortable with. Call your shots as shoot, write them down if needed. Check your target, did your actual hits match your called shots?

    It tests your shot calling but also your ability to to get accurate hits.
    ~ Chris


    Casting, reloading, shooting, collecting, restoring, smithing, etc, I love it all but most importantly, God, Family, The United States Constitution and Freedom...

    God Bless our Troops, Veterans and First Responders!

    Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas
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  14. #54
    Boolit Buddy
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    I learned not to long ago that handguns require much practice and "dry firing" in front of your TV or just sitting around is the best, safest, cheapest way to practice and over time it will make you much better shooter. I even broke my firing pin on my Canik TP9 SFX but its ok it was worth it.

    As many mentioned handguns and especially revolvers can be very accurate. Short barrel is not a problem the only problem is short sight distance, holding it steady and smooth trigger break.

  15. #55
    Boolit Master

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    You know you are having fun when your target only occupies a small portion of your front sight!

  16. #56
    Boolit Master
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    We would not need long guns if handguns were as easy to shoot accurately as long guns. Smaller mistakes cause bigger misses with handguns.

    I had three CZ-52's. I recently sold one, did not need three even though I have 9x19, 9x23 and 7.62x25 barrels. It is easy to swap barrels and recoil springs. Mine all shot like I would expect a service handgun to shoot. Around 3 inch groups at 25 yards. Good enough that you have no excuse if you miss a plate on the plate rack at 25 yards. The 9x23 hurts if I don't wear a glove. It is like shooting a model 19 with full magnum loads and small grips. I feel I can shoot better than the CZ-52 the gun is the limiting factor.

    I can shoot those same 3 inch groups at 100 yards with my Dan Wesson revolvers or my Ruger MK II and 2 inch groups with my Anschutz Exemplar. With these guns while the ammo can make some difference, I am the weak link. With the Exemplar, small differences in grip pressure and shoulder position made a big difference off a bench. Not so much when shooting off hand because holding up the gun makes you have a consistent grip and shoulder position.

    I think 1 moa pistols are rarer than 1 moa long guns and even if the guns can do it it is harder for the shooter.

    Tim
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  17. #57
    Boolit Master
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    I know well made handguns put in capable hands can produce some real feats of accuracy. Like most of you have mentioned, they are more accurate than we are in most cases and its the short sight radius that presents a challenge. That and you don't typically have the extra points of contact as on a long gun that add stability.

    Every year I shoot the Area 3 USPSA championship match at the Hornady range in Nebraska. They like putting in some tough, long distance shots in some stages. Its a guarantee there will be 4-8 shots required on a couple targets set at 48-50yds. This is a very speed & accuracy dependent sport. Those are tough shots to make without taking a lot of time. A lot of the competitors are iron sight divisions too. Ive seen some pretty amazing shooting doing stuff like that or shooting from a wobbly bridge, etc. If the shooter is capable, so are the handguns!
    ~ Chris


    Casting, reloading, shooting, collecting, restoring, smithing, etc, I love it all but most importantly, God, Family, The United States Constitution and Freedom...

    God Bless our Troops, Veterans and First Responders!

    Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas
    Accuracy, Power & Speed

  18. #58
    Boolit Master Thumbcocker's Avatar
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    Many years ago Ross Seifried (sp?) wrote an article about the MOA revolver. He was able to get 5 shots into a group about teh size of a postage stamp at 100. Before he did that he spoke with readers of the magazine he was writing for and some of them had gotten 1" 100 yard groups from a revolver. IIRC almost all the guns had been fire lapped. Ross carefully loaded his ammo and I think had a custom mold made.

    I got two things out of the article:

    1.) Revolvers can be very accurate.

    2.) there are people out in the real world who do extraordinary things with guns and reloading but never thump their chests and beat the drum about it. They just do it.
    You'll go far providin' you ain't burnt alive or scalped."

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  19. #59
    Boolit Master
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    Talked several times with Seyfried years ago over the phone. I ask him about his shooting abilities. Never did he say he could shoot like some claim or give the indication they can when shooting offhand.
    That is the reason I judge shooting ability by what someone can do over a period of time. That is also the reason I say 80 to 85 percent of the accuracy of a handgun is the shooter.
    I have been accused of saying just shoot any load whether it shoots well or not and have at it.
    I have never said that exact thing. I have said minor differences in benchrest accuracy will not make any difference in the vast, vast, vast majority of shooters ability.
    Ive seen evidence of that too.
    This is especially true as recoil goes up. Someone that can do very well with a 22RF then handed a 357 Mag full power sometimes will fall flat with it. Hand them a 44 Mag and they will do even worse. Ive seen people shooting in the ground between the firing line and the 25 yard target and the target would be chest height. Hand them a 454 Casull and see where they hit.
    The handgun is the least component in the formula of accuracy in shooting unsupported.
    We Know Mass Cannot Be Weighed But It Has Newtonian Weight And That Is Derived From Kilograms And Kilograms Can Be Converted to Pounds. But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed. But How is the kilograms obtained? Can Kilograms Be Weighed? Evidentally Yes It Can. But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed So Kilograms Must Not Exist. Funny Isn't It.
    One good thing out of this the next time I'm at the doctors and they want to weigh me I'll tell them mass cannot be weighed.

  20. #60
    Boolit Master Drew P's Avatar
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    For kicks look up Jerry miculek shooting a steel target at 1000 yards with a revolver, I believe it was a 9mm but I can’t quite remember.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ3XwizTqDw

    Wow, second shot he hits it. The guy is a freak. Interesting how flat he seems to be pointing it.

    Apologies if this was already posted.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
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GC Gas Check