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Thread: 45LC loads in 454 brass?

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    45LC loads in 454 brass?

    Hi all, I was a member and for some reason I had to re-register but no big deal...

    Anyway I have two 454 casull (both are rugers) with lots of brass to go with them and I wanted to start plinking with 45LC loads. My idea is to use all the 45lc specs in a 454 case without trimming the case, just use the 45lc OAL. In my head that sounds perfectly safe but I've received some feedback stating its dangerous for a variety of reasons..

    What are the thoughts of those here? Have any of you done it?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    If you want .45 Colt loads- no matter what power level- use .45 Colt brass. If you are going to use .454 Casull brass, use .454 Casull loads. Trying to put the load for one cartridge in brass of a different cartridge is just looking for a catastrophic failure. Load density, pressure profiles and more change when you do this, and it rarely turns out good.

    If you are looking for light loads for your .454, use light .454 loads, or shoot .45 Colt ammo in your guns.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master

    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
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    It's sort of like playing around with .38Spec. loads in a .357case.

    You won't get hurt, but I just don't do it.

    I'd follow Todd's recommendation.
    Last edited by Winger Ed.; 01-21-2020 at 01:19 AM.
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  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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    I would load to 454 length using lower velocity 454 loads , starting or reduced , google shows this question being asked here before
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...54-Casull-case pretty much says standard 45 colt load is a light load in 454

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    I do it all the time in magnums. If you load to the same OAL, you have about the same powder capacity. You might have to adjust the powder charge to your liking, but it's safe. A certain load that is safe at 1.600" in 45 colt brass is safe at 1.600" in 454 casull brass.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz1 View Post
    Hi all, I was a member and for some reason I had to re-register but no big deal...

    Anyway I have two 454 casull (both are rugers) with lots of brass to go with them and I wanted to start plinking with 45LC loads. My idea is to use all the 45lc specs in a 454 case without trimming the case, just use the 45lc OAL. In my head that sounds perfectly safe but I've received some feedback stating its dangerous for a variety of reasons..

    What are the thoughts of those here? Have any of you done it?

    Thanks
    You can certainly load light 454 loads that will be similar to 45 Colt.

    I am not sure if you have a typo or you really planned to use the 45 Colt OAL in a 454 case. I would load the light loads to the 454 OAL for that bullet. I donít know where or if the 454 case is tapered, but I donít see any good reason to load a bullet that deeply in the case.

    This is no different than loading a light 357 Mag that mirror 38 Spec or 44 Mag that are similar to 44 Spec.
    Last edited by garandsrus; 01-21-2020 at 01:27 AM.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master



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    megasupermagnum is spot on. Case volume will determine pressure. Some slow powders do odd things with too low of pressure. Powders like Unique work very well with the same charge in the 45 Colt and the 45/70 so loads like these would be fine for 454 AOL.
    2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

  8. #8
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    I've wondered about this myself. I sold my 454 Casull but have a couple of 45 Colts. Some of my 454 brass is new, some loaded one to four times. If the brass is trimmed to 45 Colt length and I use start loads to account for the thicker brass, I don't see a problem with the small primer with the fast powders typically used in 45 Colt cartridges.What do you think? Gp

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    Hope this post is in line with forum rules. If not I will delete it. Let me know.

    Ive owned 454 Casulls and still own two. One being an FA. I dont do reloading gymnastics. If I want to load reduced loads I do it primarily in the brass with the correct headstamp. A reduced load for a 454 in a 454 case.
    Unless I have a plentiful supply of cases like 44 Special in a 44 Magnum and a 45 Colt in a 454 Casull.
    If you have a chrono it is simple to jack up the 454 reduced load to match what the shorter case will give with the same powder and bullet.
    Like 7.5 grains Unique and the 250 Keith in a 44 Special case and 8.5 Unique and the 250 Keith in the 44 Mag case is so close as to be silly to question.
    The keep it simple rule should be in everyones mind in reloading.
    We Know Mass Cannot Be Weighed But It Has Newtonian Weight And That Is Derived From Kilograms And Kilograms Can Be Converted to Pounds. But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed. But How is the kilograms obtained? Can Kilograms Be Weighed? Evidentally Yes It Can. But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed So Kilograms Must Not Exist. Funny Isn't It.
    One good thing out of this the next time I'm at the doctors and they want to weigh me I'll tell them mass cannot be weighed.

  10. #10
    Boolit Buddy
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    I can not see why reduced loadings in 454 brass wouldn't work just fine. I thing everyone forgets that the added length
    to the 454 case is so they will not chamber in 45 Colt revolvers.
    When the 454 was started the only brass used was 45 Colt and heavy loadings consisted of duplex and triplex loadings
    in the colt case!
    By using reduced loadings in 454 brass the shooter won't have the carbon ring buildup in the chambers to clean out.

  11. #11
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    You are not going to have a catastrophic failure by running standard 45 Colt loads in a 454 case at 45 Colt length in a 454 gun. By seating the bullet deeper into the 454 case you will probably end up with a very slightly smaller case capacity than a regular 45 Colt case, but the standard 45 Colt loads are at such a very low pressure that any slight increase of pressure from the smaller capacity is not going to go higher than the 454 gun can handle.

    Lets open the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th ed., to page 285 and look at 45 Colt loads using the Lyman 454190 250gn bullet loaded to 1.600". It shows a max load of Unique at 9.0gns. Plug this into Quickload with a 7.5" barrel and it shows
    1061fps @ 15,952psi and 51.5% load density.
    Now lets switch to the 454 with the same bullet loaded to 1.600" and see what it gives.
    1056fps @ 15,612psi and 50.4% load density.
    There is no way that 15,612psi is going to blow up a 454 revolver. Even my "weak" Taurus Raging Bull should be able to handle that. That was a joke, I'm not suggesting that the Raging Bull is weak. I've pushed 405s to 1500fps out of it and it didn't blow up...

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    And how would that be different than loading " Ruger Only" loads in ..45 Colt brass. When I had my .454 I'd load heavy .45 Colt loads in .454 brass. The Starline headstamp and the SP primer, plus a different colored ammo box and I knew what load was what, not to mention the box having an internal and external label.....
    Tom
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    Did I ever mention that I hate to trim brass?

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I agree with lar45. I have three .454 revolvers and a Puma .454 rifle. I also have two .45 Colts, so I have no real reason to use lightly loaded .454 ammo. But, I do, however these loads are still plenty stiff for a .45 Colt. I also dislike shooting the shorter .45 Colt ammo in the .454's, due to additional erosion and fouling on the unoccupied area of the chamber. I have the same attitude about shooting .38 Special in .357 Magnums and .44 Special in .44 Magnum.
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  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    A 454 case with 9-11 grains of trailboss make for a really nice shooting 45lc power load.
    Doug
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  15. #15
    Boolit Master
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    Lighter loads or "plinking" loads will be better using the .45 LC. brass, safer also, save the .454 brass for med. to heavy loads, also see loads for both cases using Trail Boss.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    Deep seated boolits is an easy way to make it work.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master

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    Just go to HOgden and alliant Reloading Data Centers and they have data from mild to medium with trail boss, unique and power pistol. I also have a copy of Bryan Pierce's data from and older 454 Casual article. If you or anyone would like a copy of just the data, drop me a PM with your email addy.

  18. #18
    Boolit Master

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    I've never given this subject much thought. I have a .45 Colt cylinder for my FA 83. That is what I use to shoot .45 Colt loads, both light and "Ruger Only" loads. This does mean that the .454 C cylinder doesn't get much use. I've gotten old enough that I don't enjoy heavy to max .454 loads. Or Ruger Only loads for that matter.

    It also means that I can load both without concerning myself with "deep seating" or watching headstamps.

    Greg S: Is that Brian Pierce article in Handloader? I have all the Handloader issues and can look it up there if it is.
    John
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  19. #19
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
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    Grizz1, just don't load H110/296 Win below the loading manual starter loads. That is where the trouble starts to happen. Unique is a great powder for lower loads in larger cases, even 45/70. BTW, welcome to the Castboolits family.
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it

  20. #20
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by alamogunr View Post
    I've never given this subject much thought. I have a .45 Colt cylinder for my FA 83. That is what I use to shoot .45 Colt loads, both light and "Ruger Only" loads. This does mean that the .454 C cylinder doesn't get much use. I've gotten old enough that I don't enjoy heavy to max .454 loads. Or Ruger Only loads for that matter.

    It also means that I can load both without concerning myself with "deep seating" or watching headstamps.

    Greg S: Is that Brian Pierce article in Handloader? I have all the Handloader issues and can look it up there if it is.
    This is my case too (pun sort of intended). My FA83 454 has an additional 45 Colt cylinder so it's not necessary for me to light load a 454. If I didn't have that cylinder, I'd still not hesitate to fire lighter loads out of 454 brass. When I typed lighter loads, it wouldn't be anything like a cowboy action shooting semi squib load.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check