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Thread: 148 grain wadcutter, effective range?

  1. #21
    Boolit Master Good Cheer's Avatar
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    The NEI gas checked wadcutter hard cast and loaded seated out with 296 could do wonderful things (as long as you were intending to eat what you shot).

  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    That would be a great defense load in that short barred model 66.
    Yes,easy and fun to shoot,I fired many dozens of BHN 4 wadcutters @ 1000 fps the other day,it must be Hi Tek coating but leading was not bad in that 66. I expected serious leading.

    Here you can see current Vihtavuori data, 3N37 can push a 158 lead bullet above 1100,too. Within CIP 22k psi. I have used 3N37 for heavy bullets (163) in 9mm subsonic and 255 grain in 45 ACP. It delivers velocity with less pressure than many other powders.



    I know these look crazy if one is used to 16 k psi loads. 45ACP goes the other way round by the way, CIP is lower pressure than SAAMI.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master gnostic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tatume View Post
    The bullet starts dropping when it leaves the muzzle, regardless of the angle of the bore. If the barrel is pointed up, the rise of the bullet from that source is initially greater than the drop attributed to gravity. The sum of the two is positive, and the bullet has an upward trajectory. The constant acceleration due to gravity causes the rate of drop to increase, eventually exceeding the rise caused by the angle of the barrel. The sum of the two now becomes negative, and the trajectory turns downward.

    If the same bullet were fired in a vacuum, the same thing would happen, even though the speed of the bullet would be constant. The resulting trajectory would be a true parabola.

    Other interesting effects occur as well.
    If that's the case, how can a bullet be on at fifty yards, and four inches high at one hundred yards?

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnostic View Post
    If that's the case, how can a bullet be on at fifty yards, and four inches high at one hundred yards?
    A high mounted scope?

  5. #25
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petander View Post
    A high mounted scope?
    Yes.
    Or any sight setup that is significantly higher than the line of the bore. Particularly with a fast cartridge. I have a 223 bolt with a high mounted scope that does that very thing.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master gnostic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    Yes.
    Or any sight setup that is significantly higher than the line of the bore. Particularly with a fast cartridge. I have a 223 bolt with a high mounted scope that does that very thing.
    I seem to remember my 6.5 Remington magnum, being near on at a hundred with 100 grain 3500 fps JHP bullets. The rifle was sighted in with 120 grain SP that were on at 50 and 200 yards. The height of the scope effect on the trajectory is parallax, I think...

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnostic View Post
    If that's the case, how can a bullet be on at fifty yards, and four inches high at one hundred yards?
    This is a problem that I teach in my pre-calculus class. The airless case is much easier, and I'll be glad to work it out for you if you wish. The same problem in the presence of air is a little harder because the velocity is not constant. However, if you understand the airless trajectory, it's easy to intuitively grasp the additional complication. Let me know if you would like me to do it.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by tazman View Post
    Yes.
    Or any sight setup that is significantly higher than the line of the bore. Particularly with a fast cartridge. I have a 223 bolt with a high mounted scope that does that very thing.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by exile View Post
    Off topic, but since I started the thread I will ask the question. What would be your recommendation for a revolver that is currently produced for shooting 148 grain wadcutters?

    Does anyone have any experience with the Ruger GP 100 Match Champion or the Smith and Wesson N frame V comp revolvers? I checked Dan Wesson's offerings for 2020 and it looks like they are only listing one revolver for the current year.

    Your thoughts?

    exile
    The V comps are designed for action pistol, so theyre probably standard 1/18.75 twist. Fine for wadcutters out to 50 yards.

    I believe the original Colt Pythons were 1/14 twist, so if the new one follows suit and is decent quality, it should shoot wadcutters pretty well.

    If youre wanting to extend the range, Id look at the LBT Ogival wadcutter design.

    Whatever you go with, Id stick with brass matching caliber, i.e. if you buy a .357, load .357 brass & not .38.

    No matter the gun, all other factors affecting accuracy still apply.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petander View Post
    Yes,easy and fun to shoot,I fired many dozens of BHN 4 wadcutters @ 1000 fps the other day,it must be Hi Tek coating but leading was not bad in that 66. I expected serious leading.

    Here you can see current Vihtavuori data, 3N37 can push a 158 lead bullet above 1100,too. Within CIP 22k psi. I have used 3N37 for heavy bullets (163) in 9mm subsonic and 255 grain in 45 ACP. It delivers velocity with less pressure than many other powders.



    I know these look crazy if one is used to 16 k psi loads. 45ACP goes the other way round by the way, CIP is lower pressure than SAAMI.
    Very nice info!

    I have 3N37 which I got for use with 9mm Bergmann-Bayard / 9mm Largo, and .38 ACP.

    It is probably about the ideal for these ( even if the Manufacturer does not publish data for these Cartridges ).

    I had wondered about it for .38 Special or others also, so this is nice to see.

    I'll give it a try sometime in .45 ACP and .38 Special.

    Thanks!

  11. #31
    Boolit Master
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    Although I've never owned a V-Comp, a fellow loaned me his and gave me a box of ammo once. I was flabbergasted by the accuracy at 50 yards. I don't remember what the ammo was, but the gun certainly was accurate!

  12. #32
    Boolit Master

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    Good info, Petander. Thanx a lot.............
    JMHO-YMMV
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    dgilbert07 at windstream dot net

  13. #33
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by exile View Post
    Off topic, but since I started the thread I will ask the question. What would be your recommendation for a revolver that is currently produced for shooting 148 grain wadcutters?

    Does anyone have any experience with the Ruger GP 100 Match Champion or the Smith and Wesson N frame V comp revolvers? I checked Dan Wesson's offerings for 2020 and it looks like they are only listing one revolver for the current year.

    Your thoughts?

    exile
    My mother's retirement present to herself about 4 years ago was a 6" GP-100. When she gets going, a rather staggering quantity of H&G #50 wadcutters get consumed in a short period of time - usually resulting in giggles by the one shooting it.

    Of recent production, the S&W's seem to suffer more from thread crush at the frame (bore diameter .001-.002" tighter at the frame than the rest of the bore) than the Rugers do. Both are likely to need fire-lapping to really sing, but I know of three fairly recent S&W's that really lead up past the forcing cone because of this. On the Rugers, not quite so intense.
    WWJMBD?

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  14. #34
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    I have one of the new S&W 686+(7 shot) revolvers and it dearly loves wadcutters. Mine is a 6 inch version and shoots as accurately as my model 14 Target Masterpiece does.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    This Mod 66 shoots some wadcutter loads with great accuracy.

    I was shooting a 38 Special load @ 21 psi (Quick load & chrono estimate, below Vihtavuori max) with VV 3N37 today, very tight 1" grouping @ 20 meters. Shooting accurately with a snubby just feels soooo good.

    Last edited by Petander; 01-27-2020 at 09:06 AM.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks guys for the comments on revolvers, I appreciate it.

    exile
    "There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost, and religious liberty preserved entire. If therefore we yield up our temporal property, we at the same time deliver the conscience into bondage." --John Witherspoon, The Dominion of Providence Over the Passions of Men. 1776

    "The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times." Psalm 12:6 (E.S.V.)

  17. #37
    Boolit Master
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    I hate to keep adding topics to this thread, but I was wondering if the RCBS Cowboy die sets in .38 Special were worth the extra cost as an aid in loading cast boolits? I currently use a Lee set, but wanted an extra set just in case? Thanks for your thoughts.

    exile
    "There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost, and religious liberty preserved entire. If therefore we yield up our temporal property, we at the same time deliver the conscience into bondage." --John Witherspoon, The Dominion of Providence Over the Passions of Men. 1776

    "The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times." Psalm 12:6 (E.S.V.)

  18. #38
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by exile View Post
    I hate to keep adding topics to this thread, but I was wondering if the RCBS Cowboy die sets in .38 Special were worth the extra cost as an aid in loading cast boolits? I currently use a Lee set, but wanted an extra set just in case? Thanks for your thoughts.

    exile
    I am sure others here have a different opinion but if your loaded ammo is accurate and doesn't lead why would you change the system you have ?
    I don't look for a solution to a problem unless I have a problem.
    That said , nothing wrong with experimenting I have several sets of dies for many of the cartridges I load and sometimes buy a particular die if I have need for it but for the most part for what I load and the way I shoot factory die sets work fine.

  19. #39
    Boolit Master
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    Read some reviews here, decided the extra cost was not worth it, bought a three die Lee set as a spare, gave my original set a good cleaning.

    exile
    "There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost, and religious liberty preserved entire. If therefore we yield up our temporal property, we at the same time deliver the conscience into bondage." --John Witherspoon, The Dominion of Providence Over the Passions of Men. 1776

    "The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times." Psalm 12:6 (E.S.V.)

  20. #40
    Boolit Master
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    Are factory wadcutters pure lead boolits? Do you guys cast them from pure lead? 50/50? Does the use of softer lead increase accuracy? Anybody have the NOE 148 grain hollow-base wadcutter mold? How do you like it? Thanks.

    exile
    "There is not a single instance in history in which civil liberty was lost, and religious liberty preserved entire. If therefore we yield up our temporal property, we at the same time deliver the conscience into bondage." --John Witherspoon, The Dominion of Providence Over the Passions of Men. 1776

    "The words of the Lord are pure words, like silver refined in a furnace on the ground, purified seven times." Psalm 12:6 (E.S.V.)

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check