Considering a new digital scale

[1hole]

[QUOTE=Lloyd Smale;4810257] ... If your concerned your getting a bad reading is simple to stick one of your calibration weights in the pan and know your getting accurate readings.[quote]

You miss the point Lloyd, it's just not all that simple. When weighing powder, who knows when a scale is, or even may be, wandering off?

Scientists use electronic scales today. If there good enough for them====.

Well, yeah, "Scientists use electronic scales today" ... maybe because their sensitive scales cost hundreds, sometimes thousands, of dollars and are routinely checked and calibrated by trained technicians. No serious scientist uses cheap consumer grade (throw away) plastic digital scales like those from RCBS, Hornady, Lyman, etc., so you're basically using non-existent apples to justify recommending your favorite oranges.

You seriously think RCBS will stand behind all of their products "forever?" If so, you're going to be greatly disappointed when you send back any green electronic device that's outside their standard 1 year warranty for such items. (Seems they don't have as much faith in their own electronic gimmicks as you!)

Id about as soon go back to a beam scale as throw out the Dillon's and go back to single stage loading pistol rounds and while im at it toss the star and go back to lyman lubesizer.

Interesting. Well, I'm comfortable believing you know best for what you do and need. But you fail to mention that you load and shoot vastly more than probably 99% of us common reloaders, and that matters.

The costly solutions to your delightful volume problems are unlike what few of us we have so your advice has little meaning. Like, I have none of your "Dillons" (plural) because my 50 year old single stage press, manual powder measure and balance scale set up is still plenty fast enough for the ammo volume I need. And probably fast enough for most guys other here.

I think we web gurus need to keep our advice aimed at what the other guy really needs, not what we need.

[PHyrbird]

I have one of the Frankfort Arsenal digital scales. When the second watch battery ran dry I found the MTM that runs on AA alkalines. The tare function is really nice, allows use of different pans when needed. It zeros when tare button is pushed. I can load a series, set one on the scale, set the tare, measure the rest; any very far off are obvious. It comes with a calibration weight too. Granted it's shirt pocket size with the plastic cover, won't do a thousand grains. But so far accurate with precision that notes half a tenth of a grain. That's .05 gr. I check it against a RCBS beam scale about once a year with NO failures of calibration yet. Best of all is the price. I found it really helpful setting a measure, drop 5 charges in the pan, adjust so the average is the charge I need. Then the drop weight from my Quinetics or Dillon is within a tenth +/- 1. I rarely use a drum measure. The few max loads I use are always tickled to the tenth anyway. But, I usually don't load full max anyway.

[Lloyd Smale]

well if my scale is reading 20 grains and it continues to read 20 grains when I check a random charge and I randomly put the check weight on it to insure its calibrated id have to think its pretty much covered. As to rcbs covering electrical and electronics forever ill say this. Ive got an electric rcbs power trimmer that I bought over 20 years ago. It eventually started running slow so I sent it after 10 years to rcbs and they replaced the motor. Two years ago it started to slow down again and I sent it in and they sent me a whole new unit. Ive even called them and they send new free cutters with no questions asked. I can honestly say ive NEVER had rcbs not take care of a problem of any kind.

Yup scientists use scales that were expensive. Why? because they buy state of the art stuff. Im sure the first computer system used to get to the moon was extremely expensive but for 300 bucks today you can buy a lap top with more power. Im pretty confident is saying I load and have loaded as much as anyone here and have been doing it for YEARS with only digital scales and have never once hand a SINGLE problem with the. Ive had dispenser problems with my pact a couple times and they took care of it. Only other problems were plug in transformers that went bad. 10 bucks at radio shack. By the way id have to doubt man scientists are using rcbs or lyman beam scales and there sure as heck not using a 15 dollar plastic lee scale. Yup not everyone needs one or can afford one. But don't bash them because you cant. I cant afford a porche either but I don't try to claim a chev Malibu is a better car. Shooting and reloading ARE MY HOBBYS they are what most of spare time revolves around. I don't have Harleys anymore and my backs to bad to ride snowmobile much so I don't spend my money replacing them all the time. I don't shoot golfs or go camping. What I do have is a very nice loading room with the equipment I want not the equipment I had to settle for.

So if my advice is aimed at the reloaders that's volume is in the top 50 percent here and yours is at the reloaders that are in the bottom 50 percent your advice isn't valid and mine not. Now if this was an outdoors fourm you might have a valid point. But this is a bullet casting fourm. So for most of us we already reload enough to have found buying factory bullets is cost prohibitive. Most of us are in it for a hobby and shoot a lot. I don't see many people here with a stove pot and a ladle and one 2 cav lee mold. So NEED? You didn't NEED bullet casting equipment and the price of a pot, sizer, mulitiple molds (all which if of any quality cost about what a electronic scale cost). What did you NEED? A pot on your stove or heck even a fire in the pit and a 2 cav lee mold and a bottle of tumble lube.

[Lloyd Smale]

Yup and another thing there about a necessity for is weighting cast bullets. I can weight 10 bullets and determine the quality of them and the weight variation in the time you do 3 with a beam scale. Don't get me started on how much time is saved with a dispenser/scale combination even if your loading rilfe rounds on single stage. In the time it takes me to seat a bullet on my press my dispenser has the next charge ready. You see I like to load but I LOVE to shoot so any time saved loading is time I can spend shooting or with my family.

I have one of the Frankfort Arsenal digital scales. When the second watch battery ran dry I found the MTM that runs on AA alkalines. The tare function is really nice, allows use of different pans when needed. It zeros when tare button is pushed. I can load a series, set one on the scale, set the tare, measure the rest; any very far off are obvious. It comes with a calibration weight too. Granted it's shirt pocket size with the plastic cover, won't do a thousand grains. But so far accurate with precision that notes half a tenth of a grain. That's .05 gr. I check it against a RCBS beam scale about once a year with NO failures of calibration yet. Best of all is the price. I found it really helpful setting a measure, drop 5 charges in the pan, adjust so the average is the charge I need. Then the drop weight from my Quinetics or Dillon is within a tenth +/- 1. I rarely use a drum measure. The few max loads I use are always tickled to the tenth anyway. But, I usually don't load full max anyway.

[gumbo333]

One of my sons gave me an RCBS electric scale for Christmas years ago when they first came out. Several years ago it died, called RCBS and they had me send it to Pact for service. Can't remember if it cost me anything other than postage. Has been going ever since. But for powder charges I still use an old magnetic balance beam scale. Just trust it more for fairly light weighing, say 60 grains or less. In my decrepit old age, most of my mouse fart loads are less than 15 grains. When Hornady introduced their auto powder measure, scale dispencer, whatever it is called, I bought one. Just really never did like it much, slow and augered the powder out missing the pan sometimes. I think it was accurate, but it also died a couple years ago. Its retired to its box. Old habits hard to break. Knowing how to use, check and maintain a quality old balance beam scale sure isn't a bad habit. OK, that's my speech. Thank you.

[doulos]

Ive had a RCBS Micro Pro for almost 20 years. It has made in the USA on the box. It has been very good. But it seems to drift a bit lately. And has to be recalibrated more often. I check it often with check weights and my beam scale a Dillon Terminator a scale which seems very good to me. I agree with Loyd I like the speed of the digital when reloading. Its just so much faster. Only get the beam out because my digital is getting a bit squirrely.

[1hole]

....So if my advice is aimed at the reloaders that's volume is in the top 50 percent here and yours is at the reloaders that are in the bottom 50 percent your advice isn't valid and mine not. Now if this was an outdoors fourm you might have a valid point. But this is a bullet casting fourm.

Ah, Lloyd you still miss the point.

This thread was started by a Mr. Cole, specifically asking about a powder scale to meet his needs, not your needs or mine. Cole quite obviously isn't into what you or I do so he clearly doesn't need what you or I need. Thus, my realistic advice to him didn't, and still doesn't, include our needs. I felt no burning need to lean back and pontificate to the world about how experienced and, therefore, how wise I am.

A Personal Thought:

I often wish eager web gurus would use their knowledge to actually address a puzzled poster's real questions and help him meet his real needs rather than as an open door to bloviate to the world about what they do and use. Alas ...

[Lloyd Smale]

he not only asked for an opinion but asked on an opinion about buying a digital scale and opinions of it. He was open to a digital and I agreed with his choice. It the guys here telling him his choice would be wrong that are missing the point because it IS about what he wants. Not you. Id say my opinion on this forum has been respected for MANY years.

Ah, Lloyd you still miss the point.

This thread was started by a Mr. Cole, specifically asking about a powder scale to meet his needs, not your needs or mine. Cole quite obviously isn't into what you or I do so he clearly doesn't need what you or I need. Thus, my realistic advice to him didn't, and still doesn't, include our needs. I felt no burning need to lean back and pontificate to the world about how experienced and, therefore, how wise I am.

A Personal Thought:

I often wish eager web gurus would use their knowledge to actually address a puzzled poster's real questions and help him meet his real needs rather than as an open door to bloviate to the world about what they do and use. Alas ...

[cwlongshot]

My experiences:

By and large I am no lee fan. But I’m no hypocrite either. I have and use more than a couple
lEE products and like them. But Scales and powder measures are things that frankly
lEE needs to step away from ENTIRELY.

As for digital scales they have a place in reloading. They are very handy for cases bullets OA weights comparisons and the like. But they are FAR and away too subjective to environment for me to ever use one alone for powder. Lights, static fields, UNSEEN or felt influences can make them misread. NO SIR, not this guy. Been loading over forty years do so nearly daily for dozens of calibers. A BEAM SCALE always and forever. Only worries are flat level and free of air flows. Easily achieved front center and elevated on the back of your bench in a lil cubical with enough room for your trickled and hand.

My advice get the digital sure. Then buy a quality beam scale and weight set to test. Then use it as primary. Check with digital. It’s handy for many quick weights where ultimate accuracy isn’t needed. Like maybe mixed 150/165g 30 cal bullets. Or cling case volumes of diff. BRands. Etc

Good luck

CW

[cwlongshot]

Ah, Lloyd you still miss the point.

This thread was started by a Mr. Cole, specifically asking about a powder scale to meet his needs, not your needs or mine. Cole quite obviously isn't into what you or I do so he clearly doesn't need what you or I need. Thus, my realistic advice to him didn't, and still doesn't, include our needs. I felt no burning need to lean back and pontificate to the world about how experienced and, therefore, how wise I am.

A Personal Thought:

I often wish eager web gurus would use their knowledge to actually address a puzzled poster's real questions and help him meet his real needs rather than as an open door to bloviate to the world about what they do and use. Alas ...

Wow your off base man. Stay in your lane here will ya?

Question asked and answered. Every posting is another experienced persons opinion. JUST AS VALUABLE AS ANY OTHER. Lloyd has been here abouts helpin folks for far longer than some
1 hole. Play nice, walk away if a answer done suite ya.

Perfect example why boards have a ignore button.

CW

[sundog]

Anyone try the electronic scale sold by Dillon?
https://www.dillonprecision.com/d-te...8_7_25213.html

I've had one for many years, and it is a good scale. I use it for weighing [match] boolits.

[sundog]

Cole440, I'll float another idea. What you already have may be okay for the loading you are doing. I've not used a Lee beam scale. I've read several accounts of reloaders not caring for them, and some who said they are okay.

First, can you explain what you meant by weighing unknown amounts. Why can you not use a beam scale for that?

Second, why are you trickling loads? Once you settle on a load, a good powder dump should be repeatable, barring anomilies with powder like bridging, or measuring small quantities. Spot checking for consistency is usually (always) a wise procedure.

Or are you just at a point where you want to begin buying a little 'higher quality' equipment. Don't get me wrong, I use a lot of Lee stuff. If that's the case, find a reloading shop and look at the offerings --- then ask about specific items or look at one of the estores and read reviews. Don't spend $s on something you'll have to upgrade or replace later or buy stuff you do not need for what you are doing.

btw, I'm a certified NRA reloading instructor, for what that is worth.

If you find that you current kit is adequate, you can spend more for powder and primer!

[Dan Cash]

I have both digital and beam scales. The Myweigh brand digital has been my workhorse for nearly 15 years while my Redding and a couple of antique beam scales gather dust. The Myweigh works with either battery or plugged in to 110 and has never exhibited the foibles reported of other brands.

[Cole440]

Wow your off base man. Stay in your lane here will ya?

Question asked and answered. Every posting is another experienced persons opinion. JUST AS VALUABLE AS ANY OTHER. Lloyd has been here abouts helpin folks for far longer than some
1 hole. Play nice, walk away if a answer done suite ya.

Perfect example why boards have a ignore button.

CW

I didn't realise I would be starting a passionate debate haha. It's all in fun, and I appreciate the outlooks and insight.
Cole

[Cole440]

Cole440, I'll float another idea. What you already have may be okay for the loading you are doing. I've not used a Lee beam scale. I've read several accounts of reloaders not caring for them, and some who said they are okay.

First, can you explain what you meant by weighing unknown amounts. Why can you not use a beam scale for that?

Second, why are you trickling loads? Once you settle on a load, a good powder dump should be repeatable, barring anomilies with powder like bridging, or measuring small quantities. Spot checking for consistency is usually (always) a wise procedure.

Or are you just at a point where you want to begin buying a little 'higher quality' equipment. Don't get me wrong, I use a lot of Lee stuff. If that's the case, find a reloading shop and look at the offerings --- then ask about specific items or look at one of the estores and read reviews. Don't spend $s on something you'll have to upgrade or replace later or buy stuff you do not need for what you are doing.

btw, I'm a certified NRA reloading instructor, for what that is worth.

If you find that you current kit is adequate, you can spend more for powder and primer!

Hey there! Well, I started with the lee challenger kit and I have slowly been broadening my horizons since about 2013. I was just sort of at a point where I was considering the idea of moving up. The lee scale works ok, but my particular one always gets hung up near the magnets and adjusting the plastic piece with the measurements on it to weigh unknown quantities can be a pain because it's sort of sticky. I dont NEED to upgrade but I'm getting to a point where I feel comfortable doing so. However, my lee powder measure works great with stick powders! Far better accuracy than what most of my friends achieve with their rcbs or lyman measures.

I only trickle on very seldom occasions when loading stick powder for accuracy in rifles.

I load all of my pistol ammo on a lee turret with the auto disc measure and just check throughout my loading session with a scale.

Thanks,
Cole

[Cole440]

Update: so far I've picked up a used 5-10 beam scale. If you want to see why the lee sucks watch this video at around 3:00

https://youtu.be/FiUtT-4U22A

[jonp]

I also have a GemPro 250 and have had it for a year or so. It is top notch accurate. I use it now to check my Hornady Auto Charge or if I need really precise loads for some reason. I absolutely recommend this scale if you are looking for an electronic scale.

I'm not sure why anyone would want to use a balance beam anymore. Even a cheap Franklin Electronic is faster and just as accurate. I have 2 Lee Balance beams that I've never had much luck with for accuracy.

[1hole]

There IS a place for a digital scale on anyone's loading bench when weighing bullets or cases. Not so much for weighing powders tho. Digital scales are totally reliable ... most of the time.

Our cheeply made digitals aren't power line regulated so they vary a bit with incoming line droops and spikes and that affects the scale's operation. Changing temperature always affects unregulated electronic circuitry. Inexpensive digital scales (and that's all we buy) are quite sensitive to stray magnetic fields from old florescent light fixtures and electric motors. Those are facts. But, other than that, most digitals are totally reliable, at least until they crap out - which they all eventually do; then they're junk, not worth paying a technician to repair.

I've only played with 5-6 reloader grade digital scales but they all required 2-3 seconds to steady on a final reading. All of the (magnetic damped) beams I've ever seen settle in about the same time. ???

So, I find magnetic damped beam scales are little, if any, slower than digitals. But the way many of us use them is certainly slow. I've seen a lot of loading bench photos showing lousy scale placement and clumsy powder charging work flow patterns.

First, unlike digitals, setting a beam scale on the bench top is a bad mistake, that makes them much harder to see well; we really need our scales to be easy/fast to see. Logically, we should sit them on something that elevates the beam up to near eye level - meaning a shelf, a sturdy wooden box, etc. Next, we need our powder work flow to move smoothly from measure to scale/trickler to the funnel and loading block, not requiring body twists, reaching around anything or taking a step.

(As a side issue, for us to move along without wasted time/effort, we need powder measures that are hard mounted in near proximity to and at nearly the same level as the elevated scale; meaning on a logically located hard stand, NOT screwed into a press nor "C" clamped to the bench edge).

I've seen a lot of proudly (web) displayed loading bench photos showing haphazard - i.e., slow to use - tool placements (also in magazine and loading book photos). Many loaders think "beam scales make reloading slow" but it's mostly the clumsy way many folk are using them.

Not that it matters but Lee's little Safety Scale does not set a standard for beam scales. I've owned one about 15 years and find it as accurate as any other reloading scale and somewhat more sensitive than many. But --- it's a royal PITA to use because it's so light! Someday I'm gonna add some ballast in its hollow base to make it more stable. I think. Maybe. ??

[Lloyd Smale]

Yup and we have to put up with silly no good fuel injection, computer controlled ignitions, trucks that last 300k and get 20 mpg, black and white tubed tvs, kodac cameras with flash cubes that you can almost see the person you took the picture of. Heck why not go back to the lee hand tool I made my first ammo on. Don't know why we should just throw out technology and go back to the (if you can even call it) technology we had in the 60s. I for one embrace technology and things that make my life easier and make my loading easier and faster. Like I said half the guys arguing against electronics are guys that don't want to buck up and spend a 100 bucks or more on a digital and want me to believe there 30 dollar plastic lee balance beam is a precision instrument and my pact digital is a toy. Use what you want but don't pretend to give lessons to guys that have been there and done that.

[jonp]

I'm pretty much with you, Lloyd. Despite having that GenPro 250, yesterday I loaded up 100 rds of 32 H&R Mag using my Lee Dippers. Weighed the first scoop to make sure it was well under the Max and let fly. Use them exclusively at my hunting camp.