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Thread: ?New method of annealing

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    ?New method of annealing

    Several post here about annealing, so sorry if this is redundant. A few guys were mentioning using hot sand or bead blasting media in a pot, so i got an idea for using the same method, but with a media that is denser and holds heat better. Went to Harbor Freight and picked up a pound of their spark plug cleaning media. VERY heavy for the volume. Seemed to work well and about 5 seconds per case at 700 degrees is all it took to anneal the cases (using 270 winchesters which will shortly become 7mm mausers).
    Anyway, thought I'd pass this along.

  2. #2
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    Rcmaveric's Avatar
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    Seams the same concept behind salt annealing. I'd imagine anything that holds heat well would work.

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  3. #3
    Boolit Master Oyeboten's Avatar
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    Glad this came up!

    I have some annealing I need to do...I'll try this method...

    Thanks!

  4. #4
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I use a very fine heavy silica sand used for making glass. In the lead pot with a thermometer there is very constant heat and the time is also very consistent the way mine is set up.

    I use a lyman big dipper 10 lb lead pot. Handy size and holds enough sand to maintain temp good. I made a simple rack for in it with 3 plates and a center rod. The plates are .060 thick sheet metal and a dia to fit easily in the pot. The bottom plate is domed up. ( allows a nut on the bottom and the plate to set flat). the second up plate has 4 3/4" holes close to rod outside is a solid ring. this is the stop plate that sets cases depth in the sand. top plate has an even ring of 1/2" clearance holes just inside edge 1/8" or so. as holes I believe. this space and hold the cases straight and upright. A 3" length of 10-24 ready rod or long screw and 5-6 nuts. This is set in the pot and sand poured in and the pot shook to work sand in until full. The last plate is in the open and above the pot edge. This also helps act as a heat sink.

    In use I slowly fill the holes with cases till 1 hole is open then remove a case and drop into water bucket fill hole and repeat till all cases have been annealed. This gives about 20 seconds at 750* soak time. Little color change but necks are soft..

    The big thing is the warm up time getting the sand up to temp. I normally turn it on insert the thermometer. Give it 30-40 mins when up to temp I give it another 10-20 mins to normalize thru out. This works for me. I anneal a lot of bigger cases, 38-55,45-70,40-65,45-90 alonf with an occasional batch of 308s 30-06s and 357 herrets.

  5. #5
    Boolit Master
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    Thanks dogmower and country gent. I'm going to try this technique.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Oyeboten's Avatar
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    Does one quench when annealing Brass? Rather than to just set it aside and let it Air cool?

  7. #7
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    dogmower -- sounds like an ingenious idea! In addition to time/temp challenge of annealing the case front, I have been frightened (literally!) -- quite fearful -- in my annealing attempts at getting the case base too hot -- e.g., accidentally annealing it. To allay this fear, I bought and use TempLaq (450*) which I apply to case base area, hopefully insuring I do not anneal the base area.
    I'd guess you use, say, forceps to insert the case in the HF media? Do you then drop cases in, say, cool water to keep heat from migrating to the base?
    Just real curious -- I have several annealing "machines", and your idea sounds like a great possibility for, say, when I wish to just process a hand-full. Might you share, perhaps, a few more details in your process?
    Thanks.
    geo

  8. #8
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    Georgerkahn - yup. i used a lyman big dipper pot and placed the cases in with a pair of plier (forceps work ok, too). had to experiment initially on how many to put in at a time, because that affects the time each one is in the media. seems to work best if 8-10 go in, one at a time. by the time the last one goes in, the first one is ready to pull out. if any don't have enough color change, just pop them back in for a few seconds. i just kept a bucket of water next to the bench and dropped each one in when i pulled it out. the spark plug media doesn't seem to stick to the cases. i am going to try plain sand next to see how it works out. i did about a hundred cases in less than an hour, including warm up time. none seemed to have gotten annealed any further than the shoulder (i only buried them up to the shoulder), although a few did get under annealed. next time, i'll go a little slower and make sure each one gets the same amount of annealing. I'm sure with practice it'll get easier. hope that helps.

  9. #9
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oyeboten View Post
    Does one quench when annealing Brass? Rather than to just set it aside and let it Air cool?
    You need to quench to stop the heat from traveling down and heating the whole case, ruining it

  10. #10
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    dogmower -- thanks for details (Post #8). I have a couple of bags of sand-blast sand and an extra Lyman pot, and may very well give your method a try. I will have 750* TempLaq on the tip plus 450* near base, just to be OCD , with a pot of cool water to drop them in on my lap.
    geo

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I made a simple rack for in my big dipper pot. 3 round "shelfs a 1/4" rod and nuts. the discs are just big enough to fit in the pot with 1/8" around them open. all 3 hace a 1/4" center hole for the rod. The bottom disc is domed so it sits flat with the nut on the bottom. The middle disc has 4 3/4" holes close to center hole and a solid ring around out side. the top disc has 12? holes just inside the outer edge 1/2" or slightly bigger. these are bolted to the threaded rod and set to what is needed. The bottom disc domed supports and holds the rack in place and is in the sand. the second disc is set to height for a stop allowing cases to be set in the sand to it maintaining depth. This plate is 1/2" to 3/4" under the sand. The top plate is above the sand and locates and keeps cases upright. I used .093 sheet steel for mine but .060 would be enough. This rack makes it easier to maintain consistency and pace.

    In use when starting insert cases at a slow pace around ring till 1 open hole then remove and quench 1 case and insert another working around ring until batch of cases are done. THis rack maintains depth and helps make time heat ratio consistent.

  12. #12
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    Country Gent, a pic of your setup would be great to see.

  13. #13
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Ill try and get a pic and get it posted but with the sand in it all youll see is the big dipper pot and the top plate IM currently getting ready to anneal 500 38-55 long cases so Im cot going to disturb it

  14. #14
    Boolit Master slim1836's Avatar
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    I've gotten some glass beads used on highway striping for reflectivity purposes, I may have to give it a try with that in the future.

    I currently have a system I built off of plans I found online that works well.

    https://68forums.com/forums/showthre...-list-included!

    Slim
    JUST GOTTA LOVE THIS JOINT.

  15. #15
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    GONRA thinks DOGMOWER etc. comments are a real step forward in case annealing! Have to figgerout how to edit this down / condense for my files.... THANX!

  16. #16
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    I use a mechanical annealing machine made by Annealz. It basically has a ramp that the shells go on, a wheel with a slot in it that rotates, lets a shell drop in and when it rotates to the bottom, it drops the shell on another wheel with a slot and the wheel turns the shell until the slot lets it drop in and then it rotates out and drops in a pan. There is a torch head that supplies the heat from a propane bottle. The speed of the wheels turning regulates how many seconds the shell is in the flame. About 5 seconds is the optimum. I put 450 degree tempilaq on the outside of the case from the neck down to half way. i do not quench. The tempilaq is grey and will turn reddish when 450 degrees hits it. The heat stops and the rest of the tempilaq is still grey. That is the only way you know for sure that your timing and heat is right. Brass will not harden if quenched, but if you quench, you still have to dry the cases....i don't. i do not do every case with the tempilaq, just 2 or so and after a bit, you can see the change in color and know that they are doing the same as the last one. If you do not get the neck hot enough, then you have not accomplished anything except getting the cases hot, and if you get them too hot and the heat reaches the base, then you trashed your shell. They will still be too hot to handle without quenching, but after you are done in about 5-10 minutes, you can handle the shells. I never see the 450 degrees going past 1/3 of the shell and most of the time it is just below the shoulder.

  17. #17
    Boolit Master rondog's Avatar
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    I'd love to see some photos of that "annealing pot" setup too! That sounds like an awesome idea.

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