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Thread: NOE Mold for Trapdoor

  1. #1
    Boolit Bub
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    NOE Mold for Trapdoor

    I am thinking about getting a new NOE mold for my H&R Trapdoor Carbine. Click image for larger version. 

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    Any thoughts on this design and bullet weight? I would like to load it over Goex FFg. I had read somewhere that the original carbine load was a 405 gr bullet over 55 grains of black. I was thinking this bullet would fit the bill nicely. Thanks in advance!
    Last edited by MRGoodwin; 01-15-2020 at 05:22 PM.
    "I said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it". ~ Matthew Quigley

  2. #2
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    That would be a good bullet for Carbine loads.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  3. #3
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    That would be a good bullet for Carbine loads.
    I was hoping you would chime in Larry Gibson! I value your opinion. Thanks!
    "I said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it". ~ Matthew Quigley

  4. #4
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    Appears very similar to the old Lyman/Ideal 457124...which is what I shoot in my H&R Trapdoor with both BP and smokeless. If that NOE is anything like the Lyman, you'll also find that something around 12-13 gr. of Unique will duplicate BP ballistics...from my carbine with it's 1879 rear sight 12.5 gr. shoots to the same POI as 55 gr. FFg at 100 yds and, maybe, just a couple inches high at 200.

    Bill
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  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
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    The Lee 405gr also shoots extremely well at a very reasonable price. I also have a light 405gr Accurate mold that throws a bullet with a meplat almost as big as the base for hunting only.
    Just some ideas
    So many toys........so little time.

  6. #6
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    I like the value of the Lee molds but was not overly fond of the hollow base 405. They were a pain in the butt to pan lube (lube getting inside the hollow base) and the noses always looked "rough" from the sprue plate cut. This will be my first high quality mold purchase after 10 years of casting, just wanted to try something new. I am going to also order the Lee 459-500 and try that as well as long as recoil is not too punishing in my carbine.
    "I said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it". ~ Matthew Quigley

  7. #7
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRGoodwin View Post
    I like the value of the Lee molds but was not overly fond of the hollow base 405. They were a pain in the butt to pan lube (lube getting inside the hollow base) and the noses always looked "rough" from the sprue plate cut. This will be my first high quality mold purchase after 10 years of casting, just wanted to try something new. I am going to also order the Lee 459-500 and try that as well as long as recoil is not too punishing in my carbine.
    I must have gotten a good mould from Lee as the one I have casts excellent bullets. I also pan lube using a silicon baking pan and get zero lube in the hollow base.
    Make sure to let us know how the new mould works.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRGoodwin View Post
    ... I am going to also order the Lee 459-500 and try that as well as long as recoil is not too punishing in my carbine.
    Have tried both the Lee 450-500 and the Accurate reproduction of the original Gov't .45-70-500 boolit in my Trapdoor carbine with both BP and smokeless...not a lot of fun with either. Day that I was test-firing my first '.45-55-500' loads another shooter asked to try it...said he'd never shot any actual BP. After a quick 'how-to' briefing, I handed him the rifle and laid five rounds on the bench...he lasted three rounds before clearing the piece and handing it back.

    Bi;;
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  9. #9
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    I have only fired 405 gr from my carbine at this point. They seem tolerable...I have only had the rifle for a few months and haven't shot it alot as of yet. I replaced the rear sight with a Pedersoli Creedmoor sight as the factory ladder sight was finicky at best. I plan to do some testing once the weather warms up a bit here on the East Coast of Canada.
    "I said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it". ~ Matthew Quigley

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRGoodwin View Post
    I like the value of the Lee molds but was not overly fond of the hollow base 405. They were a pain in the butt to pan lube (lube getting inside the hollow base) and the noses always looked "rough" from the sprue plate cut. This will be my first high quality mold purchase after 10 years of casting, just wanted to try something new. I am going to also order the Lee 459-500 and try that as well as long as recoil is not too punishing in my carbine.
    My Lee is a plain base. I had one hollow base mold years ago. Sold it. Would not shoot worth a damn.
    So many toys........so little time.

  11. #11
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    What I have found with the Lee HB is not to use any kind of wad. I was using one and found that the bullet was just ok up to a 100 yards or less but terrible after that. Stopped using one and with the same 60 grains of Goex FF it was a totally different rifle.
    I was experiencing the same thing Larry Gibson mentioned in another thread about how the wad was staying in the HB and acting like a rudder.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carrier View Post
    I was experiencing the same thing Larry Gibson mentioned in another thread about how the wad was staying in the HB and acting like a rudder.
    Actually, that was not Larry but rather me...
    Chill Wills

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chill Wills View Post
    Actually, that was not Larry but rather me...
    That may be but I’m referring to this thread post #15

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...w-Base-Bullets

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carrier View Post
    That may be but I’m referring to this thread post #15

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...w-Base-Bullets
    Ok. When you referred to Rudder, as in my post #9 - the only place this was used, I corrected the quote location. No big deal. My royalties are small from these posts
    Below was my post in #9
    ---------------
    Don't use a wad.

    Using wads under a hollow base will cause flyers and not get the value a wad gives under a flat base bullet.

    As a side note - This LEE copy of the 1873 arsenal bullet is not really a hollow base even though it looks for all the world like it is. The LEE copy is close but not true to the real ones I have pulled from old loaded ammo. Either way, LEE or US Gov bullet, nether work with a wad.

    Here is the problem with the wad under the (hollow base) 'not flat base' bullet. A 45 cal wad puckers into the hollow and the edges recede from the base of the edge of the bullet. When that happens it does not do the basic job it is there for - protect the bullet base edge . It also sometimes sticks under the bullet in the hollow on the trip down range and that new found rudder behind the bullet completely destroys accuracy.

    All things being equal, much better accuracy (target accuracy) will be had with a different bullet with a flat base and a wad when using BP as the fuel. That Lee bullet is US Gov correct and fun in a cheap mold but don't look for match accuracy.
    I know, ..few people do buy it thinking it is a match bullet..

    I hope this"
    Chill Wills

  15. #15
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    Well my defence is I’m still on high test pain meds for the major shoulder surgery I had a bit ago.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carrier View Post
    Well my defence is I’m still on high test pain meds for the major shoulder surgery I had a bit ago.
    My very best to your speedy recovery!
    Chill Wills

  17. #17
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    In the for what its worth department;
    Here are some recent bullets I cast for a friend for his Trapdoor Springfield. They came from the LEE 405HB mold - which I really don't care for. I think it would be a better mold for today's rifleman if it were offered in flat base, but still not that great. Sure, it can be converted. I just don't care that much - there are better designs for my purposes. That does not mean it is not a good mold. It is needed as a very close copy of the 1873 arsenal bullet and that alone makes it have value. It is also very well priced. Both Lee Springfield bullets could be much better with a few small changes, especially the 500gr pointy one. Click image for larger version. 

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    These are the cast, pan-lubed unsized bullets. They come out without using a bullet cakecutter device that makes such a mess. Melt the lube in a coffee pot on the coffee warmer and pour into the pan after the bullets are placed in rows. I use a drilled out wood block that fits the bottom of the bread pan to line them up in rows like inspection of the troops. When cool, slide the whole block of lubed bullets over the side of the work table and push them out into your waiting hand below. See how perfect the lube comes out? And no mess!
    Chill Wills

  18. #18
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    The NOE bullet is a close copy of this Lyman 457-124 which is a copy kinda of the 1873 Springfield bullet.

    Here is the lyman 405 US Gov copy in mold form. The four cavity is the great shooting (in my Trapdoor) Marlin bullet for 45-70, Lyman and Idea mold number 457-193.
    I do not have a copy of the NOE bullet.

    Edit- The single cavity is miss-marked in my file as a 457124 RN. The mold is not that bullet. I will have to see if I can find the correct picture and caption. Also, I was not able to simply remove it photo.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Chill Wills; 01-17-2020 at 08:42 PM.
    Chill Wills

  19. #19
    Boolit Bub
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    The NOE mold mentioned in the OP shipped today! I will keep you updated on how it casts and what the performance is like in my carbine ��
    "I said I never had much use for one, never said I didn't know how to use it". ~ Matthew Quigley

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check