actually it's quite simple, if you're a true christian one has to like what god likes and hate what god hates
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actually it's quite simple, if you're a true christian one has to like what god likes and hate what god hates
Eating pork and the difference between the Old and New Testament is explained in post #95.Originally Posted by dtknowles
Lesbian sex presents many of the same problems that male homosexual activity presents, including disease transmission. I don't believe studies show that gay women are as promiscuous as gay men. I find it interesting that there is quite a bit of abuse in lesbian relationships. I wouldn't have thought it so (being women and all). It is not a healthy way to live.
I'm heterosexual, I'm a Christian, and I believe homosexuality is a sinful act. Having said that, you couldn't hold a gun on me and make me attracted to another man, I truly believe there are men and women that you also couldn't hold a gun on and make them sexually attracted to the opposite sex. So that leaves me in a quandary on many Biblical edicts. Is it the ACT that's a sin? I've yet to get an answer as to whether people of the same sex can cohabitate as partners, yet not commit the acts of sin, and be rote with God? Put the shoe on the other foot, can a man and woman cohabitate in a celibate life, where the sex act would be sin? There are gay and straight people who are obsessed with performing sexual acts with as many others as possible, they both are sin and disgusting, gay or straight! If I have sex with my wife and her sister, that's obviously a sin, yet I live with both, in the same house, sleep with my wife, no sin. I'm sure no one would forbid me taking my frail sister in law into my home, eventhough I could be accused of living in sin! So you can see where some of this goes when we judge others life, if there not putting it out in public.
Mat 12:7
If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent.
Rom 12:1
Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship.
When we get into judging others sins it may be wise to tread lightly.
And we need to be aware of sin, in our lives and in our brother's life. This is our responsibility before God. I have long stated the gluttony and gossip are the two sanctified sins in the American Church. They are all the same before God. We all stand condemned - for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God - and that is why I need Christ! I am a hopeless failure before Him, only Christ's sacrifice protects me.
Wayne the Shrink
There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!
Ridiculous.
You do not KNOW that at all and if they are going to HELL.
Just your opinion.
Oh, really? Do you mean you know so much that I (as a Christian) can't possibly know some spiritual things you don't know? That attitude and position seems counter to your self presumed attitude of intellectual superiority.
You seem to be offended by my statement that those who live homosexual lifestyles (i.e., deliberate sin and defiance of God) are headed to hell but your offense seems to suggest you think they will be in God's heaven too; that's odd.
If I'm right in my presumption of your basic position, you make yourself an intellectual paradox. Fact; if I am right, homosexuals will indeed go to hell and it doesn't matter what you think about it. On the other hand, if I am wrong, we all just die and no one goes anywhere and neither of our belief systems matter at all. With that said, and if you are indeed right, you have no justification for being offended in your "opinion" of my supposed meaningless (Biblical) prediction of who goes to hell - and why. Nez pas?
* Moving on, many who toss around accusations of Christians
"judging" other people can't seem to recognise the difference in our warning of wrong is not, ip so facto, "judging"; that's silly. Fact is, we know what scripture says. We didn't write scripture and we won't enforce its rules. Fact is, God himself won't make the decision of heaven or hell, everyone who rejects God automatically does that for himself.
* Note: Contrary to popular belief, St. John plainly tells us there is no coming "judgement day" to determine anyone's heaven or hell.
Our destination is determined by each of us and it takes effect at our physical death. At that moment it's pass/fail, all in or all out. There's no purgatory halfway house for any kind of catch-up pain and no one is weighed on a "good vs. bad" sliding scale. (See John 3:17-18)[/B][/I]
Our destination after death is determined by each of us?Oh, really? Do you mean you know so much that I (as a Christian) can't possibly know some spiritual things you don't know? That attitude and position seems counter to your self presumed attitude of intellectual superiority.
Oh, so these spiritual things that you know tells you that homosexuals are not born that way?
Uh-huh, uh-huh.
You seem to be offended by my statement that those who live homosexual lifestyles (i.e., deliberate sin and defiance of God) are headed to hell but your offense seems to suggest you think they will be in God's heaven too; that's odd.
Offended? No.
You tend to overstate things with a bit of exaggeration included.
Just find your statements about gays not being born that way and they are going to hell to be......well, like I said, ridiculous.
You seem to be able to know God's plan for gays it appears.
You are pre-judging them.
You do not know what God's judgement on them is going to be.
It's just your opinion.
That's the issue I am talking about.
If I'm right in my presumption of your basic position, you make yourself an intellectual paradox. Fact; if I am right, homosexuals will indeed go to hell and it doesn't matter what you think about it. On the other hand, if I am wrong, we all just die and no one goes anywhere and neither of our belief systems matter at all. With that said, and if you are indeed right, you have no justification for being offended in your "opinion" of my supposed meaningless (Biblical) prediction of who goes to hell - and why. Nez pas?
Wow.
Gettin' a little edgy there 1Hole.
A little thin on taking criticisms.
* Moving on, many who toss around accusations of Christians
"judging" other people can't seem to recognise the difference in our warning of wrong is not, ip so facto, "judging"; that's silly. Fact is, we know what scripture says. We didn't write scripture and we won't enforce its rules. Fact is, God himself won't make the decision of heaven or hell, everyone who rejects God automatically does that for himself.
* Note: Contrary to popular belief, St. John plainly tells us there is no coming "judgement day" to determine anyone's heaven or hell.
Our destination is determined by each of us and it takes effect at our physical death. At that moment it's pass/fail, all in or all out. There's no purgatory halfway house for any kind of catch-up pain and no one is weighed on a "good vs. bad" sliding scale. (See John 3:17-18)[/B][/I]
Well, yes, to a degree in that we are accountable for our earthly actions, but God is the one that makes that determination where we go.
Again, you do not know that and it is just your opinion.
I know what the Bible says about heaven and hell and how to get there. You clearly don't but you can learn it for yourself as I did, starting with the scripture I listed (John 3:17-18). (Then read the book of Romans, it's the single most focused explanation of our spiritual condition and solutions in the Bible)
Heaven and hell exist. I can't "prove it" to you but they are not my opinion. Both are made by God (the God of the Bible, not Allah or Chas. Russel or Joseph Smith or Giahia, etc.) so both are HIS property and HE gets to make the rules; not you, not me, not the Pope. God has given us his rules and He has made it super simple for us to be admitted into heaven. He says we must put our faith in Jesus as savior; there simply isn't any other requirement for passage to heaven.
But, His one rule is John 3:16. To get there we HAVE to trust the Lord (more than simply believe in Him) and not just make a false claim to fool Him; we can't do that!
Seems most people think men have to live up to a strict set of performance rules; that's not so. A stumbling new Christian IS a "new creature in Christ", not perfect even in his own eyes, but no Christian can possibly live a deliberately sinful life style without cringing inside.
No Christian is perfect but - and this is the key - we ARE made spiritually perfect in God's eyes by accepting the gift of salvation Jesus fully paid for and freely offers us. Total trust in and clinging to Jesus is the ONLY way any of us will ever see God's heaven.
I KNOW all that because it's clearly written in His Book and I've read it, cover to cover, several times. That single Big Black Book is the way God tells men how to live forever with him, there is no other source of wisdom. No matter how hard men try to deserve or earn salvation - or how hard they try to "think" of an other way - men just don't get to make rules to control God! Those men who refuse to live His way have only one eternal alternative and it's chosen by default. That final choice is laid before each man, it's all up to us; it's in The Book.
(Most everyone knows John 3:16 but it seems very few know John 3:17-18. Read it and think about THAT opinion! Then we can talk more.)
To know: To perceive directly. To know is to be aware of something as a fact or truth.
Getting back on topic, you haven't explained how you know that homosexuals are not born that way.
How can you be so certain of your statement?
There are zero verses in the Bible that support homosexuality. To the contrary there are many which declare it to be sin. Read chapter 1 of Romans for starters. There is absolutely no question about this. Don't take my word about this. Read the Bible.
Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
Rom 1:21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.
Rom 1:25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
Rom 1:27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and
receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
Rom 1:28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
Rom 1:29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,
Rom 1:30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;
Rom 1:32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who
practice them.
You have spoken the Truth so eloquently. I have been trying to wrap my brain around those same eczact thoughts, but just couldnt seem to put the words togather in a clear manner. Thank you, Bruce
What are the scriptures that support homosexuality in the Bible?
Gentlemen,
Above is the original question I asked.
I understand many wish to share their personal opinions about the subject but that evades the question. I do not believe the Bible is inerrant but I was searching for one shred of Scripture that supports homosexuality.
We are entitled to our own opinions, but for those who look to the Bible for direction and guidance, the answer is "No!"
My friend, who supports the split of the UM church, was also unable to provide any Biblical reference that permits homosexuality. The rationale appears to revolve around: not judging others, loving others, we are all sinners, and every sin is equal. But that again skirts the question.
I hope my friend accepts my "narrow minded" perspective and we remain friends. I trust all here can disagree and still be friends.
It may be appropriate to close the thread, as my question has been answered. I will leave that to the judgement of the moderators.
Don Verna
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
Rom 1:21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
Rom 1:24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.
Rom 1:25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
Rom 1:27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
Rom 1:28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
Rom 1:29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,
Rom 1:30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;
Rom 1:32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.
Rod, you make an excellent response just by reciting Romans 1. There is no way any of us can improve on scripture when countering foolish arguments against what is plainly written.
I've long been stunned by people publicly presenting themselves as intellectuals when they loudly (and ignorantly) effectively say, "Little or nothing in the New Testament says anything against the homosexual lifestyle." Goodness! I'm sure you know the NT addresses it more often, and more clearly, than the OT!
besides, they ridicule us for repeating the bible, it's not our opinion, it's god's word to us. otherwise how would a man know what sin is?
I did not read nearly any of the respondants but I will relay what happened in my parents church.
The Methodist leadership explained that the physical building and its contents were the property of the national organization. As a member you could stay and abide by the national policy of the Methodist,which supports the LGBTQ or you could leave the church.
In my parents church the vast majority have decided to leave their church. The Methodist were barely able to supply a minister for services before this. It is predicted the church will fold as the group leaving is the financial backbone of the church.
The end result is a church that is 100 y.o. will close its doors. This policy can not be acceptable to God. Closing local churches can not be a positive thing.
run and fast...
WV, I know what you mean but I suspect God is more concerned about religious social club churches that have left Him.
West Virginia? Is there not a church on every corner there? The local "church" didn't close! They may have left the building, but the "church" is alive and well! I read about a UM church in Jackson that voted to leave the organisation that simply dropped the UM to become "The North Church", looks like they may be going to court over who owns what property, but at this time the leavers occupie it. Property is the ONLY hold the UM has on the small Methodist congregations around here, and the ones I know of are seriously looking into leaving the organisation over this abomination being forced on them. I don't think God gives a poot in a whorl wind about a conglomeration of timber, stone, and plaster, but more about following his word, and some folks understand that!
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