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Thread: Homosexuality and God

  1. #61
    Boolit Man
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    reading the bible which is god's word tells us how to behave in god's holiness so that we can be accepted into his presence thru jesus his son. something to ponder "some things are true whether you believe it or not"

  2. #62
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    Healthy parents can produce babies with birth defects or congenital diseases.
    Really? !! That might explain a lot!

  3. #63
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by a danl View Post
    reading the bible which is god's word tells us how to behave in god's holiness so that we can be accepted into his presence thru jesus his son. something to ponder "some things are true whether you believe it or not"
    Roger that. If something is true it matters not what some may not "believe". And no amount of anyone's "believing" can make something untrue suddenly become true. Meaning believing only has any real value if the belief is correct.

  4. #64
    Boolit Grand Master

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    As a more general statement it is important to realize what the Bible is NOT. It is not a history text, it is not a sociology text, it is not a medical text book, it is not a study in cosmology. You can go on and on about this.

    What it is - our owners manual. When you buy a car in the glove compartment is an owner's manual. It tells you all you need to know to operate that car safely. It is not a shop manual nor does it tell you how to polish and refresh the paint. The Bible is our owners manual.
    Wayne the Shrink

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  5. #65
    Boolit Master
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    "Owner's Manual"; excellent analogy Wayne.

  6. #66
    Boolit Master

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    My question would be "WHY is homosexuality viewed as a sin?"

    If we consider in in the context of the Bible being written by people at a time when you were lucky to live to 40, your immediate tribe was all you could count on, and you needed the younger people of that tribe to care for you when you were injured or otherwise decrepit, it stands to reason that any behavior leading to not reproducing would be viewed as a negative. For that matter, there are plenty of examples of people seeing an "out" from an infertile partner.

    Taking it a bit further, how would use of contraception, masturbation, or non-reproductive but still heterosexual practices rate on the "Sin Scale"? Just like homosexuality, all gratify the biological urges without the possibility of reproduction. If lack of reproduction is the sin, then aren't they all one and the same?

    Rolling it all forward a few thousand year to the point where there are now SEVEN BILLION of us and crowding has become a real drain on quality of life, isn't it maybe time to reconsider what sexual practices constitute an offense? At this point, the fertile couple having more than two kids is more likely part of the problem than non-breeders (of any description) who can fix a machine, grow crops, build shelters and roads, or teach a math class as well as any, but aren't creating the burden of additional mouths to feed. Until "Go forth and multiply" means having your kids on Mars, it's a concern. Surely, God has to have some thoughts on creating a life that you know is likely to die young in a famine or war caused by too many people fighting over resources. Breeding to the point that we starve by the millions has to offend him more than 10% of the population choosing to bump the wrong uglies.

    And on a lighter note, I can't be the only one who's sat in rush hour traffic looking at the sea of creeping cars around me and thought "Damn! I wish all these people's parents had been gay!"
    WWJMBD?

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  7. #67
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigslug View Post
    My question would be "WHY is homosexuality viewed as a sin?"

    If we consider in in the context of the Bible being written by people at a time when you were lucky to live to 40, your immediate tribe was all you could count on, and you needed the younger people of that tribe to care for you when you were injured or otherwise decrepit, it stands to reason that any behavior leading to not reproducing would be viewed as a negative. For that matter, there are plenty of examples of people seeing an "out" from an infertile partner.

    Taking it a bit further, how would use of contraception, masturbation, or non-reproductive but still heterosexual practices rate on the "Sin Scale"? Just like homosexuality, all gratify the biological urges without the possibility of reproduction. If lack of reproduction is the sin, then aren't they all one and the same?

    Rolling it all forward a few thousand year to the point where there are now SEVEN BILLION of us and crowding has become a real drain on quality of life, isn't it maybe time to reconsider what sexual practices constitute an offense? At this point, the fertile couple having more than two kids is more likely part of the problem than non-breeders (of any description) who can fix a machine, grow crops, build shelters and roads, or teach a math class as well as any, but aren't creating the burden of additional mouths to feed. Until "Go forth and multiply" means having your kids on Mars, it's a concern. Surely, God has to have some thoughts on creating a life that you know is likely to die young in a famine or war caused by too many people fighting over resources. Breeding to the point that we starve by the millions has to offend him more than 10% of the population choosing to bump the wrong uglies.

    And on a lighter note, I can't be the only one who's sat in rush hour traffic looking at the sea of creeping cars around me and thought "Damn! I wish all these people's parents had been gay!"
    Some people just love that warm fuzzy feeling they get when they snuggle up with someone with a hairy face and chest.
    Political correctness is a national suicide pact.

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  8. #68
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigslug View Post
    My question would be "WHY is homosexuality viewed as a sin?"

    If we consider in in the context of the Bible being written by people at a time when you were lucky to live to 40, your immediate tribe was all you could count on, and you needed the younger people of that tribe to care for you when you were injured or otherwise decrepit, it stands to reason that any behavior leading to not reproducing would be viewed as a negative. For that matter, there are plenty of examples of people seeing an "out" from an infertile partner.

    Taking it a bit further, how would use of contraception, masturbation, or non-reproductive but still heterosexual practices rate on the "Sin Scale"? Just like homosexuality, all gratify the biological urges without the possibility of reproduction. If lack of reproduction is the sin, then aren't they all one and the same?

    Rolling it all forward a few thousand year to the point where there are now SEVEN BILLION of us and crowding has become a real drain on quality of life, isn't it maybe time to reconsider what sexual practices constitute an offense? At this point, the fertile couple having more than two kids is more likely part of the problem than non-breeders (of any description) who can fix a machine, grow crops, build shelters and roads, or teach a math class as well as any, but aren't creating the burden of additional mouths to feed. Until "Go forth and multiply" means having your kids on Mars, it's a concern. Surely, God has to have some thoughts on creating a life that you know is likely to die young in a famine or war caused by too many people fighting over resources. Breeding to the point that we starve by the millions has to offend him more than 10% of the population choosing to bump the wrong uglies.

    And on a lighter note, I can't be the only one who's sat in rush hour traffic looking at the sea of creeping cars around me and thought "Damn! I wish all these people's parents had been gay!"
    Wrong focus and direction. Biblically it is God that matters, not man. It is God's design that matters, and deviations from that is sin. Mankind can and has justified just about every possible sin by seeing it from man's perspective. It's only when we see from God's perspective that we see sin clearly. This is what the Holy Spirit does when He convicts us of our sin - He allows us to see ourselves from God's perspective.
    Wayne the Shrink

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  9. #69
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Smith View Post
    Wrong focus and direction. Biblically it is God that matters, not man. It is God's design that matters, and deviations from that is sin. Mankind can and has justified just about every possible sin by seeing it from man's perspective. It's only when we see from God's perspective that we see sin clearly. This is what the Holy Spirit does when He convicts us of our sin - He allows us to see ourselves from God's perspective.
    How do you see it from God's perspective. What I think you mean is from the Bible's perspective. Well, maybe God talks to you.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  10. #70
    Boolit Grand Master

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    What is the vernacular for the Bible? "God's Word" - i.e. the Words of God. Reading and understanding the Bible is listening to God. Yes, the Holy Spirit interprets it and applies it to my life when I am willing to listen to Him.
    Wayne the Shrink

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  11. #71
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Smith View Post
    What is the vernacular for the Bible? "God's Word" - i.e. the Words of God. Reading and understanding the Bible is listening to God. Yes, the Holy Spirit interprets it and applies it to my life when I am willing to listen to Him.
    Unless, like me you consider the bibles works of historical fiction.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  12. #72
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    Unless, like me you consider the bibles works of historical fiction.

    Tim
    Yeah Tim, we know. That's why nothing you (and all other spiritual iggerants) say about God matters to anyone but yourself. I do pray the Holy Spirit opens your wide shut eyes.

    (Ref. your pasted philosophical footnotes, I say weak men can safely make such lofty comments about how strong their ideas are only when they are protected by better men with swords; if I ever get in a knife fight I sure hope it's with someone who thinks like you! I'll bring my long knife; THEN we would see if a flip-lip really is mightier than a sword. )
    Last edited by 1hole; 01-21-2020 at 12:19 PM.

  13. #73
    Boolit Master


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    God has not "spoken" to us since He sent Jesus to us.

    We have the Bible as our current frame of reference until He deems it necessary to provide additional direction if He thinks we need it.

    In His eyes, many of the acts we rationalize are sins...masturbation being one of them...and I suspect the vast majority of Christians have, and will continue to practice it. It is only one of many rules that God has given man that God knew would not follow and make us sinners.


    IMHO, God sets up for failure because He needs us to fail. Christians will argue that we fail because of our free will and that is a large component. But the 613 laws of the bible confirm in my mind that He wants us to fail. Mathew 5:17 - quoting Jesus.

    "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

    In essence, God established a set of laws and restrictions that were impossible for a normal man to remember, never mind fulfill. He set us up for failure so we would need Jesus to forgive the multitude of sins we all commit.

    I have been attending church almost every week for over 2 1/2 years, at four different denominations. None of the sermons have ever discussed the 613 laws and if/how they are applicable to living in Christ. Christ may have said He did not come to abolish them, but the churches seems to "cherry pick" them and ignore the vast majority of them.

    As to how this applies to homosexuality, I tend to believe it remains a sin. The New Testament does not mention every 613 law but it is clear that homosexuality was still considered a sin after Jesus came to us. I admit I may be rationalizing this as I find the practice abhorrent and abnormal, and I am using scripture to justify my opinion.
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  14. #74
    Boolit Master


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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post

    In His eyes, many of the acts we rationalize are sins...masturbation being one of them...and I suspect the vast majority of Christians have, and will continue to practice it. It is only one of many rules that God has given man that God knew would not follow and make us sinners.
    The Bible is completely silent on the topic of masturbation. God does not say, "Thou shalt not masturbate."

    Many Christians will tell you it is a sin. It seems to some like it should be, but it is not. If it were, I guarantee it would have been addressed. It is a universal (and necessary) human behavior and countless people suffer needlessly because of the guilt they have been talked in to.

    As Christians we must educate our consciences to avoid unnecessary feelings of shame. I eat lots of meat sacrificed to demons!

  15. #75
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    Yeah Tim, we know. That's why nothing you (and all other spiritual iggerants) say about God matters to anyone but yourself. I do pray the Holy Spirit opens your wide shut eyes.

    (Ref. your pasted philosophical footnotes, I say weak men can safely make such lofty comments about how strong their ideas are only when they are protected by better men with swords; if I ever get in a knife fight I sure hope it's with someone who thinks like you! I'll bring my long knife; THEN we would see if a flip-lip really is mightier than a sword. )
    It is clear to see my "flip-lip" is mightier than your "long knife" I touche' you but your knife is has yet to make contact. If you deserved my defense I could bring more than a long knife to defend you. My pasted philosophical footnotes are three well known quotes that seem appropriate for a place where we mostly share words.

    Oh, and the Bible. It is not a knife but books of words. Are the Apostles better known for their words or their swordsmanship?

    If we were to contest, I would give you the advantage of your long knife against my quarterstaff. But seriously, do you imagine yourself using your long knife as a weapon? I am a fit 5" 10" and 180 pounds, I can be a valuable friend if you are in a tight spot.

    You can pray to the Holy Spirit for me but you should listen as the Holy Spirit might tell you that the Spirit and I have settled with each other and you should pray for others. God knows my heart and as you know the Spirit, Christ and the Father are but one, the one and only God. The God who knows my heart. Pray for yourself so that you might have the scales drop from your eyes as you seem to be blind.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  16. #76
    Boolit Master
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    @dverna, rethink Matthew 5:17, you are focused on the first part “I have not come to abolish them” but what does the second part “but to fulfill them” mean and how does it affect us? Consider that he was speaking to Jews that were fully aware of the law.

    I kinda envy the Jews of old, it is far easier I think to follow 613 explicit rules than to live up to a simple broad concept like Mark 12:31 “love your neighbor as yourself.”

  17. #77
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    Oh, and the Bible. It is not a knife but books of words. Are the Apostles better known for their words or their swordsmanship?
    Tim
    Ah, but the Bible is much more than simple "words". The Bible is the word of God and it's much more powerful than sprayed words from any uppity man. The Bible tells us "The Word of God is sharper than a two-edged sword, it penetrates to separate soul and spirit, bone and marrow". But you deny the truth of the Bible, and then use it, incorrectly and out of context; I assume to support your many blasphemies in opposition to it! So, nah, your hopefully sharp tongue carries little strength.

    Have fun wagging that lip while you still can but, no matter how hard you try, I don't believe you're doing any damage to the living Word of God (Jesus), the Bible or Christians.
    --------------------------------------------------------
    Now, ref. your veiled threat about how big and tuff you are, know that I used to be bigger and tuffer. But let me warn you, don't get too beligerent because you won't last. Given enough time, you too can be 80 with a damaged back and shoulders and a 12% functioning heart and your termite eaten staff still won't overpower the sharp word's of God. And pray that better men (like my three Christian grandsons now in uniform) continue to stand between your mighty lip and evil others!

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    Ah, but the Bible is much more than simple "words". The Bible is the word of God and it's much more powerful than sprayed words from any uppity man. The Bible tells us "The Word of God is sharper than a two-edged sword, it penetrates to separate soul and spirit, bone and marrow". But you deny the truth of the Bible, and then use it, incorrectly and out of context; I assume to support your many blasphemies in opposition to it! So, nah, your hopefully sharp tongue carries little strength.

    Have fun wagging that lip while you still can but, no matter how hard you try, I don't believe you're doing any damage to the living Word of God (Jesus), the Bible or Christians.
    --------------------------------------------------------
    Now, ref. your veiled threat about how big and tuff you are, know that I used to be bigger and tuffer. But let me warn you, don't get too beligerent because you won't last. Given enough time, you too can be 80 with a damaged back and shoulders and a 12% functioning heart and your termite eaten staff still won't overpower the sharp word's of God. And pray that better men (like my three Christian grandsons now in uniform) continue to stand between your mighty lip and evil others!
    I am 62 and I don't need your grandsons to defend me in uniform or not. My wife's grandfather is 92 with a fine back and shoulders and heart.

    I don't believe that I am doing any damage to the living Word of God (Jesus), the Bible or Christians except waking a few of them up so the care about doing more good and worrying less about the interpretations of a 2000 year old book and how to use it to persecute peoples of other beliefs and faiths.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  19. #79
    Boolit Master
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    Ah Tim. You greatly image your effect here.

    Most of us here seem to be Christians and you, as a committed non-believer don't have a clue what motivates us. Therefore your professions of encouraging us do more "good" things and to close our mouths when we see others driving towards an eternal spiritual doom that can easily be avoided. That includes YOU and that's why I, and others I'm sure, are praying for your spiritual eyes to be opened.

    Oh, about your desire to direct selfish Christians to do more good works, I read statistics saying we contribute far more to charities than non believers. I know we do far more volunteer services for others than "good" people like yourself.

    To be fair, non believers are said to do far more volunteer work for such socially important groups as Sierra Club; restrictive town planning and HOA boards; manning local Democrat headquarters; attending pink hat protests for unrestrained abortions; ANTIFAS; Occupy; various "Save the Polar Bears and Minnows"; etc. And, as a group, we're told that non believers do contribute much more than Christians for politicians and a political party (DNC).

    Seems Christians mostly stick to supporting and manning simple little things like Salvation Army, Am. Red Cross, Habitat for Humanity, Volunteer Fire and Rescue departments, Girl's and Boy's Clubs, Meals on Wheels, etc., so you wouldn't hear much about that. And you would no doubt be surprised at how much churches quitely do - a lot - for those in need but you don't want to hear about that.

    Moving on, so you're only 60 and still doing great. Well, unhappily, you're on the ragged edge of beginning to learn things like how old injuries come back to haunt all of us.

    However, I truly hope that, as a normal liberal humanist, your 60 years been so soft and protected that you have no scars and never sustained any real physical injuries in service to God or the nation - or to others in need of course. If so, that's okay, after all, it was to protect and help keep unscarred people safe that we who served and exposed ourselves -
    prayed - for.

    Finally, I know where your footnotes came from and I also know why you post them. You can keep your deadly pen at port arms for now, better others are still shielding you from the realities of an evil world.
    Last edited by 1hole; 01-23-2020 at 02:58 PM.

  20. #80
    Boolit Master
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    Obviously gay people have been around since the beginning otherwise they would not be mentioned in the bible. I see no reason to think less of them for the way they are born. If you believe in God know that God created them as he did all people.
    East Tennessee

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