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Thread: Homosexuality and God

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    First, God should be capitalized. It is a proper name if you are talking about the one and only creator of the Universe. If you are not worshiping that God then you are not worshiping God.

    I like that you said "he is the creature of everything including mankind." Yes, God is in everything everywhere for all time but you have your pronoun wrong. God is not male. Read my writings for an understanding of how to refer to God in a non-gender specific manner. God transcends sex and gender.

    One of the huge drawbacks of Abrahamic religions is they are strongly Patriarchal. It is a reflection of the society at the time the Torah, Bible and Koran were written. It is one of the ways that those religions are not timeless.

    God the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, makes me cringe. I understand how it happened but it is so antiquated but still today people use it is suppress the rights of women.

    A truly timeless expression of the "Will of God" would not be flawed the way the Torah, Bible and Koran are.
    It would be a clear expression of goodness with no coloring by the social structures of the time of its writing.

    To tie this back to the original subject. The problem with homosexuality is that too often the sex is not and expression of love. The sharing of sexual pleasure to be approved by God needs to be an expression of love not some headonistic taking of pleasure. That is also why prostitution is a sin. Monogamy is not the real requirement, the requirement needs to be that sex must not destroy love it need to make love. Infidelity is:

    "the action or state of being unfaithful to a spouse or other sexual partner" it is not sex outside of marriage it is being unfaithful. If sex hurts someone and not just physically then it is a sin. If you engage is sex that destroys love then it is a sin. Homosexuals who are just whoring around are sinners, if the only engage is sex for love it is not a sin. A man who loves a man is not a sinner but a lover and has God's favor. A man who has sex with men only for pleasure is a sinner and has no favor with God.

    Tim
    yes, you're correct God should be with a capital , also God is a spirit and He is referred as our Father of the Lord Jesus Christ. remember that Jesus said "if you have seen me you have seen the Father. He also said "I and the Father are one" that is a quote from John 10 vs;30. also i do not agree with your last segment of your reply, most of it is just your opinion , not biblical backup
    Last edited by a danl; 02-04-2020 at 03:15 PM.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6bg6ga View Post
    Being raised Catholic I remember every single Sunday morning the priest used to go over and over how we the people should be giving 5% of our income to the church. Other churches ask for 10% .... was told I could not consider that (work) part of my offering to the church.
    See ** below.

    Homosexuality and the Christian Church.... seems they welcomed them openly into the church an abomination in my mind
    Open LBGTs are blatant sinners who flaunt their sin before us and effectively shake their defiant fists in the face of God; that's abominable. Sure, the rest of us are also sinners but few of us are happy about it or flaunt our (intermittent and unintentional) sin before the public and no one of us defies God in doing it. So, yes, we all sin but there's a vast difference in heart between them and the rest of us.

    I pray for sinners, including queers. There are two in my family at large and a couple more in my extended circle of friends; personally, I love them. I welcome them to come in and sit in our pews but there's no way I or my congregation is going to ordain or even allow one to speak for God from the podium, never mind being a church officer.

    Was never taught that I had to read the Bible in order to go the heaven.
    Bible reading, of itself, itself has no part in getting into heaven but the Bible is God's way of communicating to his people. (This forum shows how those who are not his people can read it and not understand or learn a thing!) We cannot know God very well if we neglect getting to know his words to us and that comes from Bible reading ... and maybe some intense study.

    IMHO, a religious group who says you don't need to read the Bible if you just listen to them should be avoided. They know the less their followers know about what the Bible actually says will keep pew people shallow, ignorant and more receptive to that leader's slick religious BS.

    It's a common tactic of religious cults to effectively tell their victims, "By yourself, you can't understand that the Bible doesn't mean what it says, only we can tell you what it really means according to our leader's traditions and our special publications." Gag.

    Some cult groups try running in some selections of the apocryphal books. Some invent whole new Bible "translations" which are not translations at all (like Jehovah Witnesses). Some add a vast collection of home-made additions (like Mormons). Double gag.

    ..are churches necessary if one can simply pray to God on his/her own?
    I assume you mean church meeting houses? (First, the "church" is properly defined as all of the called out people of God - i.e., the born again people from any or no denomination.) Anyway, there are no mandatory church meetings for study or prayer. BUT, we are cautioned to not forget gathering together for worship (Heb. 10:25). Independently, we each draw strength from gathering in study, praise, prayer and worship. The assembly also draws strength from us too, so, yes, we should attend meetings with a good group when we can but it's no part of the doctrine of salvation.

    Bible reading is a major part of God's speaking to us.

    Prayers: Our prayers are (or should be) thought of as our conversation back to God. And, like conversation, there is no wrong or right time nor any special format (or repatricious beads) for us to speak back to our Father. Many of us have frequent conversational prayers scattered throughout the day. Our Father is concerned to hear from us, he doesn't care if we pray kneeling or standing, in chapel or Walmart, swimming or lying in bed, eyes opened or closed, walking or driving, brief or long, happy or broken hearted, speaking of our needs or lifting our thanks, etc. What I mean is, Christian prayers aren't limited to any form of papel oversight.

    ** Tithing is NOT a Christian requirement ... but a lot of us freely do it anyway; YOU decide if your labor and parts are part of your contribution to church operations, not some money hungry church officer! Seems most of us find that the money we have left after giving usually goes as far as it would have if we'd kept it - I think that's a God thing!

  3. #203
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    I like how people say the bible tells them how to live their lives. but then everytime someone brings up a thread asking what the bible says about a subject of people lives theres several hundred posts debating eachother

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmortell View Post
    I like how people say the bible tells them how to live their lives. but then everytime someone brings up a thread asking what the bible says about a subject of people lives theres several hundred posts debating eachother
    Actually, if you look at this thread, the members who profess to be Bible-believing Christians universally understand homosexual behavior to be a sin per the Bible. I didn't see any disagreement among the Christians about that whatsoever.

    There was some disagreement concerning the biological component of homosexual orientation. But that is not the same thing as behavior.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmortell View Post
    I like how people say the bible tells them how to live their lives. but then everytime someone brings up a thread asking what the bible says about a subject of people lives theres several hundred posts debating eachother
    Assume you think we should all agree, point by point. Would you be surprised if people began a lengthy discussion of their views of RCBS vs. Hornady?

  6. #206
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    no that's 2 different companys

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ickisrulz View Post
    Let me point out the obvious:

    For the Christian, the authority for faith and conduct is the Bible. What I wrote is what the Bible says, as you pointed out.

    Your system of beliefs comes from what you pick and choose from the Bible and your own imagination.
    My belief system is the 7 Cardinal Virtues, the 7 Deadly Sins and what I find that almost all religions have in common. Oh, and some things that science has determined most likely. Not imagination.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by a danl View Post
    why does everybody always blame god for the bad that happens when in fact they should be blaming the one who caused it in the first place,,,,satan
    Could be a number of reasons. One, God created Satan. Two God could stop Satan. Three, not all bad things are caused by Satan. Four, Satan does not exist, his existence is a fabrication of the Bible.

    I don't blame God for bad things that happen, I ask God to help my understand why he causes them.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by a danl View Post
    yes, you're correct God should be with a capital , also God is a spirit and He is referred as our Father of the Lord Jesus Christ. remember that Jesus said "if you have seen me you have seen the Father. He also said "I and the Father are one" that is a quote from John 10 vs;30. also i do not agree with your last segment of your reply, most of it is just your opinion , not biblical backup
    Don't you get it yet. I don't believe the Bible is the word of God. The bible has some good and some bad and using the Bible as evidence of anything is flawed.

    My last segment is not opinion, it is self evident. Like freedom of speech or all men are created equal. Some things are just obvious. If you don't see them that way I would question those who taught you to see them differently. Love is good, infidelity is bad. Hurting people is bad, making people feel better is good. You don't need a Bible to understand these things.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    ....Some cult groups try running in some selections of the apocryphal books. Some invent whole new Bible "translations" which are not translations at all (like Jehovah Witnesses). Some add a vast collection of home-made additions (like Mormons)..........
    Am I reading this right. Did you just call Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons cult groups?

    That would be a shining example of Religious Bigotry. Are they as evil as Muslims and Jews? Oh, maybe they are worse. After all Mormons (really LDS) Mormon is an insult, think they are Christian. I guess believing Jesus is your Lord and Savoir in not good enough for you.

    Tim
    Words are weapons sharper than knives - INXS

    The pen is mightier than the sword - Edward Bulwer-Lytton

    The tongue is mightier than the blade - Euripides

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1hole View Post
    See ** below.



    Open LBGTs are blatant sinners who flaunt their sin before us and effectively shake their defiant fists in the face of God; that's abominable. Sure, the rest of us are also sinners but few of us are happy about it or flaunt our (intermittent and unintentional) sin before the public and no one of us defies God in doing it. So, yes, we all sin but there's a vast difference in heart between them and the rest of us.

    I pray for sinners, including queers. There are two in my family at large and a couple more in my extended circle of friends; personally, I love them. I welcome them to come in and sit in our pews but there's no way I or my congregation is going to ordain or even allow one to speak for God from the podium, never mind being a church officer.



    Bible reading, of itself, itself has no part in getting into heaven but the Bible is God's way of communicating to his people. (This forum shows how those who are not his people can read it and not understand or learn a thing!) We cannot know God very well if we neglect getting to know his words to us and that comes from Bible reading ... and maybe some intense study.

    IMHO, a religious group who says you don't need to read the Bible if you just listen to them should be avoided. They know the less their followers know about what the Bible actually says will keep pew people shallow, ignorant and more receptive to that leader's slick religious BS.

    It's a common tactic of religious cults to effectively tell their victims, "By yourself, you can't understand that the Bible doesn't mean what it says, only we can tell you what it really means according to our leader's traditions and our special publications." Gag.

    Some cult groups try running in some selections of the apocryphal books. Some invent whole new Bible "translations" which are not translations at all (like Jehovah Witnesses). Some add a vast collection of home-made additions (like Mormons). Double gag.



    I assume you mean church meeting houses? (First, the "church" is properly defined as all of the called out people of God - i.e., the born again people from any or no denomination.) Anyway, there are no mandatory church meetings for study or prayer. BUT, we are cautioned to not forget gathering together for worship (Heb. 10:25). Independently, we each draw strength from gathering in study, praise, prayer and worship. The assembly also draws strength from us too, so, yes, we should attend meetings with a good group when we can but it's no part of the doctrine of salvation.

    Bible reading is a major part of God's speaking to us.

    Prayers: Our prayers are (or should be) thought of as our conversation back to God. And, like conversation, there is no wrong or right time nor any special format (or repatricious beads) for us to speak back to our Father. Many of us have frequent conversational prayers scattered throughout the day. Our Father is concerned to hear from us, he doesn't care if we pray kneeling or standing, in chapel or Walmart, swimming or lying in bed, eyes opened or closed, walking or driving, brief or long, happy or broken hearted, speaking of our needs or lifting our thanks, etc. What I mean is, Christian prayers aren't limited to any form of papel oversight.

    ** Tithing is NOT a Christian requirement ... but a lot of us freely do it anyway; YOU decide if your labor and parts are part of your contribution to church operations, not some money hungry church officer! Seems most of us find that the money we have left after giving usually goes as far as it would have if we'd kept it - I think that's a God thing!
    I'm confused... If memory is correct we were quoted a bible verse where it said we had to give 10%

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6bg6ga View Post
    I'm confused... If memory is correct we were quoted a bible verse where it said we had to give 10%
    Tithing is an Old Testament Law given to Israel, not to the Church. Not everything in the Old Testament applies to the Church (see post #95).

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    Could be a number of reasons. One, God created Satan. Two God could stop Satan. Three, not all bad things are caused by Satan. Four, Satan does not exist, his existence is a fabrication of the Bible.

    I don't blame God for bad things that happen, I ask God to help my understand why he causes them.

    Tim
    the first two are correct ; however God did not create evil , satan wanted to be greater than God so he and his following angels were cast out of heaven. and one day God will put an end to satan's reign here on earth. all bad things are from satan because this is a fallen world, and satan DOES exist, just look around you and you will see the evil that exists.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtknowles View Post
    Don't you get it yet. I don't believe the Bible is the word of God. The bible has some good and some bad and using the Bible as evidence of anything is flawed.

    My last segment is not opinion, it is self evident. Like freedom of speech or all men are created equal. Some things are just obvious. If you don't see them that way I would question those who taught you to see them differently. Love is good, infidelity is bad. Hurting people is bad, making people feel better is good. You don't need a Bible to understand these things.

    Tim
    if you cannot be convinced by God's word then i can't make you believe either. remember this 'man looks at the outward but God looks at the heart'

  15. #215
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    I have a question. After 214 posts on this subject what has everyone determined?
    To me it is as apparent as the nose on ones face as to what has been learned and it is that everyone has a belief on this subject, everyone is going to do or say whatever he/she can to defend their opinion whether it is right or wrong, everyone believes they are right and the others are wrong. This can be compared to discussing different denominations, which brand of vehicle is the best, which caliber is best, agument about enery, momentum, Taylor Knockout Value, bullet diameter, velocity or bullet weight is the determining factor in killing power.
    Without me going into more detail didnt everyone know how this would go? What would the possibility be that anyone wouldnt know how it was going to turn out?
    Now in a concise way please lets state what we have learned that we didnt already know about how this thread would turn out.
    To me it solved nothing and changed no ones opinion much less belief and I knew this from the start.
    I am not trying to be "snarkey" or any other despicable way. Just curious as to what others have to say.
    We Know Mass Cannot Be Weighed But It Has Newtonian Weight And That Is Derived From Kilograms And Kilograms Can Be Converted to Pounds. But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed. But How is the kilograms obtained? Can Kilograms Be Weighed? Evidentally Yes It Can. But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed So Kilograms Must Not Exist. Funny Isn't It.
    One good thing out of this the next time I'm at the doctors and they want to weigh me I'll tell them mass cannot be weighed.

  16. #216
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    Ah Timmy, as a confirmed innerlecshul "liberal" you only see your opposites in black and blacker; don't you know that may not be fair?

    You just can't seem to get it that Christianity is not a religious club where anyone can "half believe" anything and call themselves by a nice label and make it so. So, I'll write this note to you and anyone who wonders if anything you say here is worth hearing.

    First, surely you know I don't care what you or any other religious cultist calls me because I know you have no valid reference for doing so. Can you grasp that all Christians here know that you lack any understanding of what you're talking about and it greatly reduces any effect on us you may hope to accomplish?

    We have Christian Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, etc. and our core beliefs have the same foundation; cults do not. So, by definition, they are cults no matter what else they say. Mormons and J.W.s claim to be Christians but, like you, their lips (including yous) don't make it so! Cults have an entirely different "jesus", different doctrines and a vastly different afterlife than Christians. And that's not my judgemental or hypothetical put-down, it's what they will tell you.

    I grew up with a determined LDS mother who succeeded in drawing my father and younger sister into that fold but, by the grace of God and the fervent prayers of my Christian grandparents, I am no Morman. I have several cousins (that I love) who remain in that cult today. They are all good people, we don't talk religion because we have vastly different beliefs but we hold together in mutual courtesy. And I know some very nice J.W.s too. They've all solid cultists but none of them are the depraved maniacs you suggest and I'm appalled you would say so.

    You need to grow up.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by 44MAG#1 View Post
    I have a question. After 214 posts on this subject what has everyone determined?
    To me it is as apparent as the nose on ones face as to what has been learned and it is that everyone has a belief on this subject, everyone is going to do or say whatever he/she can to defend their opinion whether it is right or wrong, everyone believes they are right and the others are wrong. This can be compared to discussing different denominations, which brand of vehicle is the best, which caliber is best, agument about enery, momentum, Taylor Knockout Value, bullet diameter, velocity or bullet weight is the determining factor in killing power.
    Without me going into more detail didnt everyone know how this would go? What would the possibility be that anyone wouldnt know how it was going to turn out?
    Now in a concise way please lets state what we have learned that we didnt already know about how this thread would turn out.
    To me it solved nothing and changed no ones opinion much less belief and I knew this from the start.
    I am not trying to be "snarkey" or any other despicable way. Just curious as to what others have to say.
    I am the OP and had my question answered. There is no scripture supporting homosexuality. I was not interested in what other religions say on the subject as I am a Christian.

    Yes, the thread drifted, but the original question has been answered. The thread drift did not bother me.
    Don Verna

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  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by dverna View Post
    I am the OP and had my question answered. There is no scripture supporting homosexuality. I was not interested in what other religions say on the subject as I am a Christian.

    Yes, the thread drifted, but the original question has been answered. The thread drift did not bother me.
    That really was my basis for asking the question I asked. Didnt you know that to begin with? Now be realistic now, Really?
    We Know Mass Cannot Be Weighed But It Has Newtonian Weight And That Is Derived From Kilograms And Kilograms Can Be Converted to Pounds. But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed. But How is the kilograms obtained? Can Kilograms Be Weighed? Evidentally Yes It Can. But, Still Mass Cannot Be Weighed So Kilograms Must Not Exist. Funny Isn't It.
    One good thing out of this the next time I'm at the doctors and they want to weigh me I'll tell them mass cannot be weighed.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6bg6ga View Post
    I'm confused... If memory is correct we were quoted a bible verse where it said we had to give 10%
    Yes. But that specific figure was directed to O.T. Hebrews living under the Mosaic Law to gain the approval of God. The Law pointed to the coming Messiah and showed a failed people how much they needed Him. The point of the many O.T. laws were accomplished in Jesus. Lord Jesus brought a new covenant that applies to all people and is predicated on trust and faith in Him, not a check list of rules (see Heb 8:6-13).

    The Salvation of God is a matter of the heart, not a list of hoops to jump through, but a LOT of religious leaders want to keep people under bondage to rules (i.e., legalism).

    God doesn't hold us to 10% (or anything) in order to be saved but, like the old time temple and priests, our local church organizations must have sufficent funds to pay the bills and support any outreach. But, giving less than 10% is a gift, less is not a tithe.

    I suggest everyone pray and ask God for guidance about how much HE should contribute to meet those needs - who knows, it might be 20%!

  20. #220
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    This thread is something in regards to the outright hubris displayed by some believers.

    I'm also confused as to why religious threads are able to be seen without logging in, I was under the impression that these threads were under the same category as the Pit.........which is where this one should be......or, just shut down.

    Threads on this subject are pretty much guaranteed to deteriorate into condescension, arrogance, and hubris......they bring out the baddies in people.

    I have no problem with religion, or religious people, or gay people.....or even religious gay people.....as long as they don't try to force their beliefs on me.

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