Understanding bhn & how to use lead wisely

[Winger Ed.]

How do you test your COWW's to make sure they are lead not zinc.

Try to cut them with a pair of 'dikes'.
The Zinc ones are real hard, they'll tell you if they're Zinc.

[samari46]

Most of the steel plate match shooters used hard cast bullets in their ammo. I used to mine the pistol berm while the high power boys had their monthly match. After a good rain the hard cast bullets were easy to spot. Rain would wash them off the berm and they would be just laying there on the ground. using a rake and shovel and a square with some hardware cloth it was simple as rake and shovel but those plastic buckets get heavy fast. I'd normally get 6-8 buckets before I had to stop. I used a mortar box and my pressure washer to wash the Louisiana gumbo mud off the bullets. the nice fat 230 grain round nosed bullets went into a separate pail for melting and after they were made into ingots Put in a pail reserved just for those ingots.The rest of my haul was also washed to get the mud off and melted normally. Basically wheel wheel weights plus 2% tin is all I use for bullet casting. So the pail with the hard cast bullet ingots sees infrequent usage.Frank

[Rich/WIS]

COWW run about 3% Sb, not sure about SOWW but they are much softer, many consider them as pure for alloying purposes. Tin aids in castability but is only about 1/3 as effective as SB in increasing hardness. Range lead varies based on what was put into the backstop but recall years ago a vendor on the forum posted that run of the mine scrap was about 2% Sb. Have cast pistol bullets in most of the calibers you list and with moderate loads straight range lead cast and shot fine. Hardness alone is not the answer, proper fit for the bore and a good lube are at least as important, maybe more so for good results. If whatever mix you use cast and shoots go with it and don't worry about percentages or hardness.

[dtknowles]

Try to cut them with a pair of 'dikes'.
The Zinc ones are real hard, they'll tell you if they're Zinc.

Hey Ed, thanks, I know how to do it, I was wondering if the poster knew how or even knew he needed to check. I think he contaminated his melt with zinc from COWW.

Tim

[smoked turkey]

dtknowles Thanks for the heads up for zinc ww. Unfortunately my lead supply is mystery metal for me as they are already in ingot form. They are supposed to be COWW, but truthfully I do not know. I do know my ingots that are pure, or close to it. I also know my 50/50 bar solder is good as it is marked. However, I do think that this particular batch of COWW ingots could be contaminated in some way. I really do need to do some more checking on them. My stash of COWW goes back a dozen or more years and when I get around to putting them in ingot form I will do some checking but I doubt there are many zinc in the batch because they are quite old. I am pretty clueless on this deal and was hoping someone might give me some insight on what the stuff could have been floating around in my pot. Thanks for your input. I appreciate it. I do have a Lee hardness tester and I plan to do some checking for hardness but that is all I know to do, short of taking them somewhere to have them tested.

[lightman]

Okay, I don't want to hijack this thread and I don't think this question will do that...I want to do a 50/50 with approximately 2% tin. Yesterday I add to a 1/4th of a pot(approx) of that same mix, the following; 3#of pure, 3#of coww, and 830 grains of 50/50 bar solder. I have a thick, silvery slurry on top of the mix that is like the consistency of something like grits. I take the temperature to 750 by Lyman thermometer and it won't melt. I flux a couple of times and eventually spoon it out in order to get a nice smooth mix. What did I spoon out and should I have done something different? Thanks for your input.

It sounds like zinc. You can test your ingots for zinc by putting a drop of acid on them and looking for a fiz or bubble. The tin in your solder should have mixed with your alloy when you fluxed.

But all may not be lost. Try to cast a few bullets and see how well they fill out. Zinc is bad but a small amount won't hurt.

[smoked turkey]

Thanks to all for the valuable input to my question. I did cast about 60 or 70 boolits from a new to me Lyman 401638 HP mould I just recently purchased. It is a fine mould and I plan to use them in my S&W 10mm pistol. I think they came out pretty good with good fill out and hardly any rejects. They are supposed to weigh 155 grains I believe from Lyman #2. Based on that I would have thought my boolits would weigh some more than that with my 50/50 + 2% tin mix. However, they weighed in at 153 gr and the as cast diameter was .401. So thanks again all for the help.
Stan

[RogerDat]

Take two paint stir sticks and crush/grind the slush between them a little at a time. If it turns to ash as the lead is forced out. Skim that ash off and dispose of it. Zinc test with pool acid does work. Acid reacts with zinc, doesn't fizz up with lead. Really low level of zinc may have less reaction. Low enough level of zinc isn't an issue for casting.

I thinks sometimes high temperature or temperature differential between ambient and melt or some other who knows what can cause that sort of slush on top. It can be zinc contamination, but it might also not be. Worth trying the couple of things I opened with to see if one can remove it.

[Gobeyond]

10 lbs range scrap plus a quarter lb of tin = 95.5 pb 2.5% sn. And 2%. Sb Useful to ya at your velocity.
@Stan?

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Bullet hardness measurements are an imprecise science, bullets cast from the same pot can, and do, give different hardness values due to the nature of the measurement. In addition, alloys that on the surface appear to be identical can produce bullets with widely different hardnesses based solely on issues like casting technique, mould temperature, pot temperature, and where and how the bullets are dropped.

So you have found an alloy that works! Lead hardness testing is mostly a waste of time because of the many variables involved.

My method (for the last 50 years) has been to cast 5 good boolits and weight them to arrive at an average weight. From then on if you want to duplicate that alloy, cast 5 and weigh them, if too light add some pure lead, if heavy add some tin or antimony. With today's digital scales you can record this weight to at least 3 decimal places.

It has proven the most effective way of duplicating an alloy that works.

This method is as outlined in the Publication "The Art of Bullet Casting".

https://www.amazon.com.au/Art-Bullet.../dp/1879356759

[mac1911]

Take two paint stir sticks and crush/grind the slush between them a little at a time. If it turns to ash as the lead is forced out. Skim that ash off and dispose of it. Zinc test with pool acid does work. Acid reacts with zinc, doesn't fizz up with lead. Really low level of zinc may have less reaction. Low enough level of zinc isn't an issue for casting.

I thinks sometimes high temperature or temperature differential between ambient and melt or some other who knows what can cause that sort of slush on top. It can be zinc contamination, but it might also not be. Worth trying the couple of things I opened with to see if one can remove it.

This definitely can be a problem.
I had a known allow do this to me a few times. I took all that dross from that run and ran it through again using both lyman thermo and my scanner thermo kept the hea below zinc melt. Touch under 700'F i was able to recover 80% of that mess. I then smelted it back into another batch .
Its seems to be more related to the pot I use and how much I put in pot. More alloy in bigger pots gives me more problems.
I went back to my smaller pot and work in smaller batches.

[kmw1954]

Would yall consider range scrap soft lead? Mostly jacketed pistol bullets.

I have range scrap from two different sources and when I use the lead pencil test on ingots it shows softer than COWW, but only by a little.

[fredj338]

Do yall trust the various hardness testers on the market? Lee, Saco, ect. I've heard mixed opinions.

They all give you close enough bhn if used properly. Though I think far too may worry about bhn in their handguns & not enough about proper bullet fit.

[jsizemore]

We add antimony and tin to lead to make it harder. A little antimony goes a long way to making your alloy hard. Tin makes it less hard but malleable. Adding both makes it strong and malleable. You can add plenty of either to get to what ever harness you need but together they make it even stronger and will give you strength and the ability to conform to the throat, leade, lands and grooves of your barrel.

[farmbif]

I guess I've been real lucky have never yet had a leading problem, I'm no expert but here's my experience in nutshell. I scrounge alloys wherever I can and smelt clip on wheel weight separate and add a little bit of solder or pewter to boost tin content usually no more than 1/4 lb per 3 qt pot of wheel weights. used in pistol and rifle loads, stick on wheel weights and pure lead I smelt separate and use for black powder, buck shot and slugs. bullets always lube sized .002-.003 larger than bore, and use Lars high quality lube sticks.
today I pushed some 35-200 carnauba red lube sized to .360 in a 336 with 34.5 gr 8208, 39gr LVR and 39 gr Varget. I didn't set up chronograph but these bolts were moving pretty quick. just cleaned the gun, no leading, nice shiny bore even before running patches of hoppes 9 through.

[mac1911]

I guess I've been real lucky have never yet had a leading problem, I'm no expert but here's my experience in nutshell. I scrounge alloys wherever I can and smelt clip on wheel weight separate and add a little bit of solder or pewter to boost tin content usually no more than 1/4 lb per 3 qt pot of wheel weights. used in pistol and rifle loads, stick on wheel weights and pure lead I smelt separate and use for black powder, buck shot and slugs. bullets always lube sized .002-.003 larger than bore, and use Lars high quality lube sticks.
today I pushed some 35-200 carnauba red lube sized to .360 in a 336 with 34.5 gr 8208, 39gr LVR and 39 gr Varget. I didn't set up chronograph but these bolts were moving pretty quick. just cleaned the gun, no leading, nice shiny bore even before running patches of hoppes 9 through.

i have been running range scrap that comes in at less than 10 by the pencil scratch test.
Have ran it to 1600fps with no leading in rifles.
i also size .002" over on all most everything. Most my rifles have generous leads or throats. Been using 2500+ lube for everything even my low velocity 45s.

[OS OK]

There is a good read on LASC about testing with these commercial grade testers...Lee was rated at the top with a couple others...

Testing The Consistency Of The Commonly Available
Cast Bullet BHN Test Equipment
http://www.lasc.us/Shay-BHN-Tester-Experiment.htm#Lee

note:
Cabine Tree, LBT, and Lee tools appear to have been equally consistent within their groups for this particular batch of bullets. SAECO seemed to have more variance, due in part to conversion factors.

All I have ever used is the LEE & that experience got even better when I discovered this clever 'measuring scope holder, it's easy-peezy, doesn't shake & the measurements are much more precise because of the steadiness.

I found this one here...
https://thereloadersnetwork.com/prod...casting/tools/

[Mitch]

Harness tetsers are a good thing i have an an LBT and used it alot for a few years.now it mostly sets on the shelf.I have gone to a lager pot.The next thing was getting lead tested so i know just what I have.This has saved me alot of expecive tin.Sure is nice not guessing anymore on my alloys.i believe and know that i sure used up more tin than I needed for for a long while.

First off fit of the cast bullet for your gun is king in this game after that BHN is relative.The hrdness tester will give you an idea of where you are.But the lead testing and knowing your alloy will do several things for you.Save you money.let you mix any alloy you want at any given time and be consistant with the last batch.If you are have a casting problem you know it is not the alloy.Causes you less stress and makes casting alot more fun when you get a good system down.

The alloy calculator found here is very simple to use once you know what you have makes it a very good tool.

My thoughts on the WW thing.My casting stared about 8 years ago.I began looking for lead any place i could find close to home.I didnt have much luck on finding any volume of WW.But i was finding alot of scrap Pipe and sheet at the local recycleing centers and scrap yards. Plenty of soft lead.At the time i found some solder bars now and then along with the soft lead and got enough WW to mix the pistol alloy I wanted.As time went on the lead and solder just began getting less and less.The ww I found had less and less usable lead in it,and was not worth the time it takes to sort or even pay anything for .So pretty early on i learned to just make up my alloys from the soft lead the solder bars and buying super hard from rotometals.in this time i have njever found any type metals or much hard lead.Bottom line is WW are just another alloy not reason to knock yourself out looking for them then sorting the bucket to find very little useable lead.

Just my 2 cents worth this works for me and i have more days when the casting Gods are smileing on me.If the gods are angry on a given eveing there is on imprtant feature on your scating pot.The on/off switch try again another day.

Happy lead hunting and casting all

[mac1911]

Harness tetsers are a good thing i have an an LBT and used it alot for a few years.now it mostly sets on the shelf.I have gone to a lager pot.The next thing was getting lead tested so i know just what I have.This has saved me alot of expecive tin.Sure is nice not guessing anymore on my alloys.i believe and know that i sure used up more tin than I needed for for a long while.

First off fit of the cast bullet for your gun is king in this game after that BHN is relative.The hrdness tester will give you an idea of where you are.But the lead testing and knowing your alloy will do several things for you.Save you money.let you mix any alloy you want at any given time and be consistant with the last batch.If you are have a casting problem you know it is not the alloy.Causes you less stress and makes casting alot more fun when you get a good system down.

The alloy calculator found here is very simple to use once you know what you have makes it a very good tool.

My thoughts on the WW thing.My casting stared about 8 years ago.I began looking for lead any place i could find close to home.I didnt have much luck on finding any volume of WW.But i was finding alot of scrap Pipe and sheet at the local recycleing centers and scrap yards. Plenty of soft lead.At the time i found some solder bars now and then along with the soft lead and got enough WW to mix the pistol alloy I wanted.As time went on the lead and solder just began getting less and less.The ww I found had less and less usable lead in it,and was not worth the time it takes to sort or even pay anything for .So pretty early on i learned to just make up my alloys from the soft lead the solder bars and buying super hard from rotometals.in this time i have njever found any type metals or much hard lead.Bottom line is WW are just another alloy not reason to knock yourself out looking for them then sorting the bucket to find very little useable lead.

Just my 2 cents worth this works for me and i have more days when the casting Gods are smileing on me.If the gods are angry on a given eveing there is on imprtant feature on your scating pot.The on/off switch try again another day.

Happy lead hunting and casting all

yup I work at a shop and it takes a long time top get a bucket of weights, its been about 33/33/33 for years lead/zinc/steel-plastic . Not worth the effort unless you getting them close to free.

I do a quick sort pulling all but the smallest lead weights out , takes me about 15 min and pass the rest of the bucket along to the scrap yard.