Understanding bhn & how to use lead wisely

[sgms18]

I'm a pretty new caster. Been at it for about 2yr. I've been collecting lead, mostly wheel weights & range scrap. I have about 15-20 of the 50/50 sticks. Plus random lead scrap I don't know the origin of(most of this I believe to be pretty soft). Up to now I have been using straight wheel weights for everything. I'm just doing pistol right now. 45acp, 45 colt, 38spl, 357 mag & 44 mag. So my question, is there a general set of guidelines I can use to determine which sorce/hardness of lead to use for which cartridge/load. Other than softer lead for light loads & harder lead for hotter loads. Just don't want to waist all my wheel weight lead unnecessarily & want to start making use of some of the other types I've rounded up.

[Paper Puncher]

Go to the bottom of the page there is a block "Cast Bullet Notes From lasc.us" Click it then check out some of the cast bullet articles.
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm This is a link for From Ingot to Target.

[Paper Puncher]

Taken out of "From Ingot to Target"


Useful
Application Hardness Range
Light target loads (<800 fps and 10,000 psi) BHN 6-12
Standard revolver loads (800-1000 fps, 16,000 psi) BHN 8-14
+P revolver loads (1000-1200 fps, 20,000 psi) BHN 10-16
Magnum revolver loads (1200-1500 fps, 35,000 psi) BHN 12-20
454 Casull (1400-1800 fps, 50,000 psi) BHN 16 and up

The lower end of each of these hardness ranges will expand somewhat in each of these applications. Harder bullets can be used, but they won’t obturate meaning that you’ll have to use a lube capable of sealing the system, since the bullet cannot contribute to this critical job. Hard lubes probably won’t work here. Note the recurrence of BHN 12 in many of these ranges, and remember that’s what the Oldtimers used to think of as a hard bullet. We’ll come back to this thought…

[dtknowles]

Mixing your wheel weights (if they are clip ons, COWW) with equal parts soft lead works great for target loads in pistols. If you have trouble with rejects then add up to 2% tin. So for a 10 pound pot, 5 pounds COWW, 5 pounds soft or 5 pounds COWW, 4.5 pounds soft and no more than a half pound 50/50. Even these are barely softer than COWW. COWW are BHN 12, half and half is BHN 10 and with the added tin we are at BHN 11.

If you need harder then go with COWW plus 5% tin. In the 10 pound pot that is 6 pounds COWW and 4 pounds 50/50 which is poor mans #2 alloy. A bit short on antimony. Or you could just water drop the mix or pure COWW and maybe get BHN of 18.

Full house magnum loads might deserve harder bullets but maybe not, your mileage may vary. I am sure somewhere here there is a sticky with an Excel spreadsheet with alloy calculations.

Tim

[Wheelguns 1961]

There is an article somewhere on here (probably in the stickies) that explains how to test bhn with different hardness lead artist’s pencils. If you are unsure of what some of your stuff is, this may be a handy way to figure it out.

[sgms18]

Do yall trust the various hardness testers on the market? Lee, Saco, ect. I've heard mixed opinions.

[bmortell]

you can do pretty much anything with water dropped or heat treated 50-50 (half clip on ww, half pure, and atleast 1% tin) it makes your WW last twice as long. and if you want soft just don't water drop/HT

[dtknowles]

Do yall trust the various hardness testers on the market? Lee, Saco, ect. I've heard mixed opinions.

I have only used the Lee at home and a Rockwell at School/Work. I think the Lee is fine for what we do.

Tim

[sgms18]

I really appreciate the responses. This is just the kind of info I was looking for.

[Winger Ed.]

I wouldn't make them any harder than ya have to.

COWWs, even pure Lead, and Tin is getting more and more expensive & harder to scrounge.
You probably don't want to waste it or give yourself an added unnecessary expense.

[Hickory]

Do yall trust the various hardness testers on the market? Lee, Saco, ect. I've heard mixed opinions.

Hardness testers are only relevant to the actual hardness of the lead, the numbers are unimportant. The key is repeatability. Will your hardness tester give you the same number or measurement with the same alloy everytime?
In other words, the measurement could be, a,b,c,d,e,f,g and so on, as long as you know a certain number or letter will give you certain results at certain velocities.
Keep detailed records and eliminate the guess work.

[sgms18]

I wouldn't make them any harder than ya have to.

COWWs, even pure Lead, and Tin is getting more and more expensive & harder to scrounge.
You probably don't want to waste it or give yourself an added unnecessary expense.

Exactly!

[kevin c]

The LASC articles by Glen Frexyll and others are great. I take them as reliable sources of information from knowledgeable people.

At my last reading of them, though, they didn't have any articles on the (relatively) new technologies of powder or HiTek coated cast loads. I'm not a caster or coater with great depth or width of experience, but everything I've read here seems to support the idea that coating boolits allows the use of a lower BHN alloy. Unfortunately, what I haven't found here is a chart similar to Frixell's (posted above by Paper Puncher) that describes what combination of coating and lower BHN alloy works in which applications. There are enthusiastic supporters for each, describing loads up to rifle velocities, but so far it's very much a matter of individuals doing their own testing.

Anyway, just raising another possible set of options for your consideration.

[fredj338]

I divide my alloy into 3 groups; clip ww, pure lead & range scrap. I cast them into diff shaped ingots & blend alloy in the casting pot. I have lino & tin but keep them in their original forms for alloy blending. For handguns, I think most people over think BHN & alloy. I use range scrap for 90% of my handgun use, works fine.

[smoked turkey]

Okay, I don't want to hijack this thread and I don't think this question will do that...I want to do a 50/50 with approximately 2% tin. Yesterday I add to a 1/4th of a pot(approx) of that same mix, the following; 3#of pure, 3#of coww, and 830 grains of 50/50 bar solder. I have a thick, silvery slurry on top of the mix that is like the consistency of something like grits. I take the temperature to 750 by Lyman thermometer and it won't melt. I flux a couple of times and eventually spoon it out in order to get a nice smooth mix. What did I spoon out and should I have done something different? Thanks for your input.

[Winger Ed.]

silvery slurry on top of the mix that is like the consistency of something like grits. I take the temperature to 750 by Lyman thermometer and it won't melt. .

I get that too, and skim it off.
I don't know what it is, but its not very heavy, so I figure it isn't Lead.

[lightman]

Straight clip on wheel weights will work great in those calibers that you listed. A 50-50 mix of clip on weights and soft lead with 1 or 2% of tin added will also work and will stretch your supply of clip on weights. Many casters put too much importance on hardness. The bullet fitting the rifling or the throat is more important.

[sgms18]

Would yall consider range scrap soft lead? Mostly jacketed pistol bullets.

[Winger Ed.]

Would yall consider range scrap soft lead? Mostly jacketed pistol bullets.

I do.
There might be a noticeable amount of alloyed cast from a pistol range-
I wouldn't expect more than 10-15% hard cast at most ranges.
Most range scrap will be soft Lead that's swaged, .22s, and more or less pure Lead that melts out of jackets.

Hard cast stuff coming out of a rifle range is sort of rare at most places.
It too will be almost all .22s, soft minie/musket balls, and Lead melted out of jackets.

I'd use your range scrap for all slow handgun loads,
and add just enough precious wheel weights for it to flow and fill out the molds right.

No reason it wouldn't do well as a base to add alloy to for hard cast rifle & magnum pistol boolits also.

[dtknowles]

Okay, I don't want to hijack this thread and I don't think this question will do that...I want to do a 50/50 with approximately 2% tin. Yesterday I add to a 1/4th of a pot(approx) of that same mix, the following; 3#of pure, 3#of coww, and 830 grains of 50/50 bar solder. I have a thick, silvery slurry on top of the mix that is like the consistency of something like grits. I take the temperature to 750 by Lyman thermometer and it won't melt. I flux a couple of times and eventually spoon it out in order to get a nice smooth mix. What did I spoon out and should I have done something different? Thanks for your input.

How do you test your COWW's to make sure they are lead not zinc.

Tim