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Thread: Bullet Design and Alloy For Subsonic 357 RSM/Legend

  1. #1
    Boolit Buddy
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    Bullet Design and Alloy For Subsonic 357 RSM/Legend

    I am looking to load my 357 RSM and 350 Legend subsonic am am wondering if I am better with a plain base 1:25 or a GC'd harder alloy. NOE makes both in the design I am looking at, so it's just a question of obturation I believe so I get no gas cutting. But at 1025fps I need to bump that base up to seal. I am not running the bullets through a can.

    Thoughts?
    So many toys........so little time.

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy
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    What NOE mold are you looking at using? If you have good bullet fit you shouldn't need a gc. I also tend to run oversized cast bullets , I shoot alot of 50GI and one of my guns love .502 diameter bullets and another. 501 is tight. Both fit the chamber/throat and I haven't had any issue with leading and accuracy has been great.
    I designed 3 cast bullets for 9mm/.355"and have been testing them in 9mm running them at .356, the first is the Accurate Molds #35-188DZ, it does well in the 9mm with federal cases. I have also started testing it with shell shock cases and looks good so far. The second bullet Accurate Molds # 36-185D, I have started testing this one in the shell shock cases and it looks good but still need to find it's sweet spot. The last design is a heavier version of the last one Accurate Molds # 36-205D, it is 205gr and I have a feeling it will be great, but is too heavy for the 9mm although I am playing with it in the shell shock cases but as of yet gotten the load figured out. I am planning to re-chamber one of my contender barrels to 9mm win mag and I think this bullet will be great in it.
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    Last edited by 475AR; 01-11-2020 at 10:18 PM.

  3. #3
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    Can't speak to NOE, but I have been using this Accurate design for similar subsonic applications with fine results in a .38 S&W rook rifle by John Taylor and also in the .38 Special cowboy gun. Also shoots to the fixed sights and very accurate in the S&W Victory .380-200 Lend-Lease and Colt Police Positive revolvers with 2.5 grains of Bullseye.

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    Last edited by Outpost75; 01-11-2020 at 10:05 PM.
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  4. #4
    Boolit Master Oldfeller's Avatar
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    Simply state your preference for either PC or greased lead and about half the alternatives disappear. State what sort of bullet weight you are thinking and the field narrows considerably.

    You seem to be thinking that the 350 Legend can boost a heavy bullet past what PC can cover gas control wise and I can assure you a heavy 350 Legend bullet (as heavy as you can chuck it at full speed) can come out of the barrel supersonic and with good accuracy. You can also go subsonic if you like, but that is a voluntary choice, not a requirement.


    You need to go here:

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...-Boolits/page7
    All retired now, just growing tomatoes and building and shooting my guns.

  5. #5
    Boolit Buddy
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    NOE 360-278-SP or 360-249-RN.

    Might even powder coat 1:20 alloy instead of lube. Im not new to the Subsonic game. Been doing it in a number of 30 cal and higher rifles for 30+ years. No interest in pistols there.
    So many toys........so little time.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Oldfeller's Avatar
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    At 250+ grains, that is one very heavy "rainbow trajectory" bullet coming out of a Legend. The round nose format will be better than the spire point as far as pure accuracy goes -- but you have not said if it is for a bolt action or AR action yet.

    Why so heavy? 200 grains and a bit would be perfectly deadly if fired sub-sonic using a meplat, but now you have to consider if you seek wound channel "splash expansion" or no expansion at all. 35 caliber "expansion" thoughts leads to thoughts about meplats as the current 30 caliber sub-sonics only work by going sideways and swapping ends inside the target to get their "expansion" and that is all driven by their extreme length and relatively low twist rate.

    Mebbe you could just tell everybody what you are trying to do so we aren't guessing at all this various stuff.
    Last edited by Oldfeller; 01-12-2020 at 12:11 AM.
    All retired now, just growing tomatoes and building and shooting my guns.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    What is the twist of rifling you plan to use???

    For a bullet over 200 grains subsonic you want a 1:14 or 1:12 twist.
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  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
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    AR Platform. Opened feed ramps. 1:12 twist. I think I’ll try the plain bass in
    1:25 to start. The NOE drops at .360” so I need to size to .356” anyway.
    I get 1 MOA in my 7.62x39 and 300 BO with jacketed subs.
    Around 2014-15 Moleman and I independent of each other developed the 357 RSM.
    I have shot that rifle extensively supersonic with 147-225 gr bullets. Now just looking
    to have some fun tinkering with the subs.
    Last edited by WBH; 01-12-2020 at 10:32 PM.
    So many toys........so little time.

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    ideal 358318 245gr rn with 5.1-5.2 Unique but needs long throat--also Penn bullets 230 gr Thunderhead--search for harrympope posts about 358 heavy cast subsonics in 357 guns.

  10. #10

  11. #11
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    A 1:12 twist will stabilize this bullet subsonic.

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    The ENEMY is listening.
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    Keep it to yourself.

  12. #12
    Boolit Master Oldfeller's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	254990 Stick the tooling into a block of wood to the proposed depth,
    pour the cavity, cut it off and do a reality check the proposed bullet's weight.


    In the age of powder coating, you could do something like this ...... 210 grains, suitable for 16 twist guns at super or sub-sonic speeds. This is "case constrained" in the AR based 350 Legend and fights for enough loading space for enough powder to go really fast "supersonic" style and it fights for magazine space also.

    Subsonic, lots of room (not much powder is required). I think the Legend works better with 180 grain to 200 grain bullets, as far as powder room and magazine room go.
    Last edited by Oldfeller; 01-18-2020 at 02:18 AM.
    All retired now, just growing tomatoes and building and shooting my guns.

  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    A 1:12 twist will stabilize this bullet subsonic.

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    Unfortuately that design wont feed in my AR. Not pointy enough even with the feed ramps opened up.
    So many toys........so little time.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check