Brno VZ24 recessed muzzle??

[Minerat]

I started cleaning a Brno VZ 24 8mm today that I pucked up a few years ago at a good price. Really gunky bore but after running a number of patches with Ed’s red and shooter choice/Kroyl thru it, it is beginning to feel smoother. Was like sand to begin with. Once I got it relative clean I tried to slug it and after two attempts failed, I began to look at the muzzle and found that the first 1.781 (45.2mm) of the barrel is larger then bore and has NO rifling. The Truk 8x57j I have is not this way.

It also appears that the rifling ends abruptly at this point since when I drive a lead ball into it for slugging, it hangs and shaves off enough that the ball will not catch the rifling so you get a smooth slug.

Marking on the barrel are VZ24 8mm CZECHO and OAI GEORGA VI

The side of the receiver is marked Zbrojovka BRNO A.S. VZ.24, SN matches except for the bolt SN YR 18***

The tag with the gun lists it as a R1952G 8MM and the shop sold me 8X57J Mauser ammo for it.

Is it common on these Brno mauser’s to have this recessed muzzle and if so how do you slug a barrel without the slug hanging on the rifling.

Well back to cleaning and brushing, maybe someday I’ll get all the gunk out.

Thanks for your help.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

It's probably CAI for Century Arms International.

The recessed muzzle was a common "cheap fix" to restore accuracy to rifles with worn or dinged muzzles. It's fairly effective as it just creates a new crown farther into the bore, and the part that was enlarged has little or no effect on the passage of the bullet which doesn't touch it at that location.

It most likely is an 8x57mm.

You can slug the bore from the chamber end, driving the slug toward and out the muzzle.

You could try a cleaning solvent like Sweet's 7.62 for more aggressive cleaning. Follow the directions closely.

[Mk42gunner]

I rebarreled a couple of VZ24's about fifteen years ago, and I don't remember anything odd about the take off barrels.

It sounds to me like your rifle was counterbored to possibly correct a bad muzzle. I have read of this being done, supposedly by some foreign militaries; no proof who actually did it though.

Have you tried several light blows with a small hammer to get the slug to take the rifling?

Robert

[Hick]

Yes-- what they said. I've seen a K98 counterbored like that, and even a P38 pistol.

[elk hunter]

Back boring the muzzle of VZ 24's is quite common and was most likely done because of muzzle wear from cleaning. Why rebarrel when a simple back bore will fix the problem especially if you have a large number of worn rifles and your thinking of changing to something more modern in the near future. The VZ 24 didn't come on the surplus market until recently so they may have been stored as war reserve rifles. I don't recall seeing this in other military rifles.

[Minerat]

Thanks guys for the information. I kind of figured it was a cheap crown fix but did not know for sure.

Der Gebirgsjager - I believe you are right on the CAI. The roll stamping is a little light. Should have used a piece if chalk to highlight it.

Mk42gunner - I have a smaller diameter ball and will try that with a smaller hammer to get it started or will go in from the breach.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Just for conversation-- I have several of these rifles. I've worked a couple of them over, and they make great shooters. Some of them have the counter bored muzzle, and a couple do not. What is even more interesting is that a couple of them have a discernable line around the outside of the barrel behind the front sight. I have to wonder about this-- it almost looks like the barrel was cut off perhaps an inch, and then a piece added back on. If you just cut the barrel back an inch or so the bayonet would no longer attach properly, so I'm sure that was something else they were thinking about. They make really good shooters, both cast and jacketed bullets. In my opinion they were just about the best Mauser pattern rifle made. Some were made for S. America in 7mm, but I doubt if yours is one of them, and you'll know for sure after you slug it. I always slug from the breech end. I've found I easier to get the slug started into the bore as it's guided in by the chamber's throat, and I won't miss the rod I'm pushing it with and ding the muzzle.

DG

[Minerat]

Well I tried again and the slug comes out with NO rifling groves. Lol

It measures 0.315 and as smooth & shiny as a babys butt. You can see the rifling in the bore and feel the twist when running a patch or brush thru but a lead slug will not catch the rifling and gets sized to the .315" . Patches are still black so it needs more TLC I suspect the groves are still too gritty to let the slug follow them. Choir boy on a brush is going thru it tomorrow. Patches have no blue color after letting copper out set for a little while, yet. Thanks again.

[lefty o]

a lot of them with scrubbed rcvr rings were acquired by the russians, and they sure like to counterbore stuff.

[Czech_too]

I found my VZ24 to have an over size bore, compared to the Yugo 24/47. Use boolits sized to .327 in the former, compared to .323 in the latter.

[kywoodwrkr]

Of the 15-20 VZ24's I bought from CAI(2003 or so) about 3 of them were counter bored.
At the time it was determined that the simple operation returned a usable rifle to immediate service.
Got no feed back as to being an arsenal operation or more of an operation done at something like division/company level.
YMMV

[Minerat]

So it appears that the counter bore is not that unusual, it sure plays havoc on slugging from the muzzle though. I continue to scrub and swab, maybe someday the patches will come out clean.

[nekshot]

I bought a bunch of them way back. Some where counter bored and some were not. Can you find other 98's with as smooth actions as the vz24. I have not found any but I have not seen everything!

[Gtek]

Smooth as glass, probably why silly me a long time ago drilled through the dancing lion and put a Shilen out in front of him.

[44magLeo]

Cerosafe. Put a tight patch in from the receiver end. Push it up to about a 1/2 of the end of the rifling. Melt the Cerosafe, pour in the barrel. when cool push it out with the cleaning rod.
You can do the same for a chamber cast. Put the patch in from muzzle, stop above the chamber and pour in through the receiver.
The chamber cast will give you the size of the throat. Sizing bullets to the throat gives better accuracy than sizing to the groove size.
Leo

[Minerat]

44magLeo. Now that's a light bulb moment. I'll get some from Roto metals and have a go at it. Thanks for the suggestion.

Still running a brush and patches thru it. Every time it gets a good scrubbing the patches are a grungy brown. Must be 50 years of gunk in it. But at least no blue stains yet. Oh well time to make more old T shirt patches and scrud it again.