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Thread: curio and relic license low down

  1. #21
    Boolit Buddy


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    What did the ATFE make you do to surrender your license (paperwork, etc.)? I just renewed my permit, but have bought few C&R firearms recently.

  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master
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    It may cost a few bucks for transfer fees through a FFL, but with a C&R license you are exposing yourself to a BTAF knock on your door. It's none of their business what's in your safe(s)
    Regards
    John

  3. #23
    Boolit Master


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    The license is not for business. It is for individuals to purchase firearms 50 years old and curios. The list of what can be bought changes every day. The list of guns that can be bought is rather amazing. You can sell but it is limited by vague language.
    It does open up your home for inspection by the BATFE where otherwise a warrant would be needed.
    Fewer and fewer suppliers recgonize the license and give a discount on orders. That use to be an attractive part of the license.

  4. #24
    Boolit Buddy
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    if you are going to purchase more than one firearm a C&R can save you a lot of money. I have saved about $200 since getting my C&R. Also a C&R lets you buy directly from Simpson ltd. quite a few firearms on there that can be purchased with a C&R. Do not look at the following webpage, its worse than gambling. https://simpsonltd.com/long-guns/mil...?sort=priceasc

  5. #25
    Boolit Buddy
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    Going through paperwork recently and discovered mine expired in December. Haven't used it since 2017 so didn't notice. Waiting for start date for new job then I'll send in paperwork for 2nd renewal, then buy something to scratch the itch. The Mas-49/56 and Hakims that Classic has are tempting
    Last edited by goryshaw; 02-08-2020 at 10:52 PM.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master Shawlerbrook's Avatar
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    Unfortunately here in NYS a C&R license is no longer valid under the recent SafeAct. All transfers require a background check unless you have a full fledged ffl.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master
    NoZombies's Avatar
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    Read the rules and laws careful, and you'll see that the 03 only requires the records and guns associated with the license to be available for inspection by an officer at a pre-appointed time and location. Because you aren't licensed to do business, they can't make "surprise visits" during business hours... there in no business, nor does it allow the ATF to inspect the business premises, as, again, there is no business. If you're contacted to schedule an audit, you may request to meet at the ATF field office or another agreed upon location.

    The 03FFL does NOT give the ATF the right to search or inspect your home without a warrant. And it only gives them the right to inspect the guns purchased on the license, and the records related to those, not the rest of the collection.

    Now, with that said, it doesn't mean that an agent won't overstep the bounds, but the rules are clear.
    Nozombies.com Practical Zombie Survival

    Collecting .32 molds. Please let me know if you have one you don't need, cause I might "need" it!

  8. #28
    Boolit Master

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    Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
    My amendment can beat up your amendment.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoZombies View Post
    Read the rules and laws careful, and you'll see that the 03 only requires the records and guns associated with the license to be available for inspection by an officer at a pre-appointed time and location. Because you aren't licensed to do business, they can't make "surprise visits" during business hours... there in no business, nor does it allow the ATF to inspect the business premises, as, again, there is no business. If you're contacted to schedule an audit, you may request to meet at the ATF field office or another agreed upon location.

    The 03FFL does NOT give the ATF the right to search or inspect your home without a warrant. And it only gives them the right to inspect the guns purchased on the license, and the records related to those, not the rest of the collection.

    Now, with that said, it doesn't mean that an agent won't overstep the bounds, but the rules are clear.
    I agree with this.

    I have learned that most people do not actually read the regulations. I researched and carefully read what I was getting into.

    762
    Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
    My amendment can beat up your amendment.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master
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    There's been some fair input here on acquiring and owning while having a C&R FFL.

    How about when selling with one? I ask as I've wanted one for a time but now am looking at selling off some of my pieces that would fall into the C&R category. Most were purchased at retail on my end.

  11. #31
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by 30calflash View Post
    There's been some fair input here on acquiring and owning while having a C&R FFL.

    How about when selling with one? I ask as I've wanted one for a time but now am looking at selling off some of my pieces that would fall into the C&R category. Most were purchased at retail on my end.
    You'll actually find the information in the documents the ATF will send you, but here's the basics. While you have your license, any CR eligible firearm you obtain or "dispose" of must be logged for the duration of the license.

    If you own it before the license, you don't have to log it unless you sell it if it's C&R. At that point you must log it. It doesn't necessarily even have to be a sale, even if you trade or gift it to someone, you are supposed to log it.

    If you don't use the license to purchase it, you still have to log it if it's C&R. That includes if it's gifted or procured as part of a trade.

    It's not about "using" the license, it's about "having" one.

  12. #32
    Boolit Buddy
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    My opinion is the C&R License merely reestablishes the Constitutional Rights ALL Citizens had under the Second Amendment BEFORE GCA 1968! How many Criminals fill out a BATFE Form 4473 to Acquire their guns? WHY must honest folks fill out a BATFE form NO criminal bothers with?

    The GCA 68 merely established a HUGE new federal agency that HAS had NO need!

    IF BATFE DID it's job since 1968, why is it now needed to Regulate honest citizens?
    When will BATFE "Work" it's way OUT of IT's JOB?? WHY would it be a FOREVER Restriction on ALL Honest Citizens? Why was BATFE NOT needed Before 1968?????

    Adam

  13. #33
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    You'll actually find the information in the documents the ATF will send you, but here's the basics. While you have your license, any CR eligible firearm you obtain or "dispose" of must be logged for the duration of the license.

    If you own it before the license, you don't have to log it unless you sell it if it's C&R. At that point you must log it. It doesn't necessarily even have to be a sale, even if you trade or gift it to someone, you are supposed to log it.

    If you don't use the license to purchase it, you still have to log it if it's C&R. That includes if it's gifted or procured as part of a trade.

    It's not about "using" the license, it's about "having" one.
    Ok thank you, that sums it up well.

  14. #34
    Boolit Buddy
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    Will anyone TELL me HOW many Criminals BATFE snagged this year, or last, with ALL their Rules and Regulations? I understand they will Regulate Honest Citizens, but WHY has BATFE NOT, YET, worked itself OUT of Job??? What is the End GOAL?

    How does BATFE "Measure" it's "Success?" Why is that agency needed???

    Adam

  15. #35
    Boolit Master

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    Very few governmental agencies justify their existence. The FBI publishes crime statistics but since those statistics reflect less crime where concealed carry and other 2nd Amendment rights have been enacted into law, they are mostly ignored by the left.
    John
    W.TN

  16. #36
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Helmer View Post
    Will anyone TELL me HOW many Criminals BATFE snagged this year, or last, with ALL their Rules and Regulations? I understand they will Regulate Honest Citizens, but WHY has BATFE NOT, YET, worked itself OUT of Job??? What is the End GOAL?

    How does BATFE "Measure" it's "Success?" Why is that agency needed???

    Adam
    They have statistics and information on their website.

    BATFE actually does quite a bit. I know most gun folks, myself included, tend to be critical of them, but having worked with them on a handful of occasions, they are a good group of folks and do a tough job.

    You'd probably be surprised how many explosives and arson incidents they are involved with.

    When it comes to firearms, there are stats that have been available for years of how many federal laws they deal with that aren't prosecuted. Tens of thousands annually That's not necessarily on them, but on the DoJ for not prosecuting.

  17. #37
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    They have statistics and information on their website.

    BATFE actually does quite a bit. I know most gun folks, myself included, tend to be critical of them, but having worked with them on a handful of occasions, they are a good group of folks and do a tough job.

    You'd probably be surprised how many explosives and arson incidents they are involved with.

    When it comes to firearms, there are stats that have been available for years of how many federal laws they deal with that aren't prosecuted. Tens of thousands annually That's not necessarily on them, but on the DoJ for not prosecuting.
    Catch22,

    IF BATFE Went Away, WHO would notice? All they are Is another Expensive federal agency that has an "Empire" to EXPAND to justify their existence.

    Before 1968 we had NO BATFE, were we Less safe back then? Are we safer now???

    WHAT has BATFE done besides harass Honest gun owners? WHEN will BATFE end it's existence??? It did not exist Before 1968, so why is it needed now??? As Regan said, "Nothing is more permanent than a government agency." How many criminals has BATFE snagged versus Honest citizen???

    Adam
    Last edited by Adam Helmer; 02-12-2020 at 06:22 PM.

  18. #38
    Boolit Master Burnt Fingers's Avatar
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    I had one for a few years. My biggest problem was getting dealers to actually recognize the 50 year rule. I NEVER was able to buy a 50+ year old firearm without going through the 4473 and background check.

    Sure there are a few mail-order houses that will recognize it, but their stock is somewhat limited. When you run across that '50's Colt revolver at the pawn shop or gun store they are going to stick to what they know, 4473 and background check.
    NRA Benefactor.

  19. #39
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burnt Fingers View Post
    I had one for a few years. My biggest problem was getting dealers to actually recognize the 50 year rule. I NEVER was able to buy a 50+ year old firearm without going through the 4473 and background check.

    Sure there are a few mail-order houses that will recognize it, but their stock is somewhat limited. When you run across that '50's Colt revolver at the pawn shop or gun store they are going to stick to what they know, 4473 and background check.
    I've experienced a mix of that. Some are knowledgeable and will recognize the C&R without issue, and some you couldn't convince. If I was in the shop making a face-to-face purchase, I usually just did the 4473 rather than even have the discussion.

    Gunbroker was where I tended to have issues. Most sellers, especially in the C&R section, aren't an issue. There was that occasional guy that was a pain. I always made sure before bidding, though. Armslist is another place where there was a mix. Forums like here and gunboards I rarely had an issue, though.

    I do miss the days where we had C&R Facebook groups where a guy could buy, sell, and swap. Everyone knew what a C&R was and there were no issues.

  20. #40
    Boolit Grand Master

    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    I have my FFL03 and FFL06? - ammo manufacturing because I sometimes send castboolits to others and I'm a little compulsive. Anyway, the first time I got them I had a nice visit from two young ladies from BATF, one a trainee. They tried to start hard but when I told them why I got the O6 they started asking serious questions about how I did it - cast - and the safety issues involved. They really didn't know. Then I told them that LOML was a geologist for DEQ- the Department Of Environmental Quality - and she made sure I was doing it right. We actually had a rather nice visit. I've maintained both licenses since then and not heard a peep from the BATF since. Moral of the story, know your stuff and don't be intimidated.
    Wayne the Shrink

    There is no 'right' that requires me to work for you or you to work for me!

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